{"id":8777,"date":"2014-11-03T04:41:00","date_gmt":"2014-11-03T04:41:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/?p=8777"},"modified":"2023-02-08T04:45:10","modified_gmt":"2023-02-08T04:45:10","slug":"not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/zh-hans\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/","title":{"rendered":"Not being Me \u2014 Interview with Gavin Turk"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

by Chris Moore \u58a8\u864e\u607a

Gavin Turk \u201cA\u201d at Ben Brown Fine Art, Hong Kong<\/strong>
Ben Brown Fine Art<\/strong> (Pedder Street Hong Kong) Sept 13\u2013Nov 15<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Gavin Turk was one of the defining artists of the provocative, harum-scarum 1990s London scene, dubbed the YBAs (Young British Artists). Randian recently spoke to Turk following the opening of his first exhibition in China. Entitled simply \u201cA\u201d, the exhibition is a mini-retrospective and introduction to Turk\u2019s diverse practice. <\/strong>Gavin Turk was born in 1967 in Guildford, England. He studied at the Royal College of Art in London and at his MA graduation exhibition in 1991 presented \u201cCave\u201d, a whitewashed studio space containing only a blue English heritage plaque commemorating his presence. The College didn\u2019t like it. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Chris Moore: <\/strong>Can you hear me?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Gavin Turk<\/strong>: Yes, I can hear you. It\u2019s very hot here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: I\u2019m so jealous!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: (Laughing) It\u2019s almost too hot!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Gavin Turk, \u201cGunslinger\u201d, acrylic on canvas, 225 x 135 cm; (88 5\/8 x 53 1\/8 in.), 2011. Copyright the Artist. Courtesy Ben Brown Fine Arts, London<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: How long have you been in Hong Kong? This is your second time in there?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: Third. We literally flew to Shanghai last Friday and spent a few days going to museums and openings there, and then came here at the beginning of the week; we had the opening on Tuesday night.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Gavin Turk “Fright Wig Piss” 2014 \u00a9 the Artist, Courtesy Ben Brown Fine Arts<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Which do you prefer\u2014Hong Kong or Shanghai?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: Ah\u2014oh that\u2019s a difficult question to answer. They are quite different. Obviously in Hong Kong it\u2019s easier. I was quite surprised that Shanghai is so cosmopolitan and with what I consider to be a quite developed capitalistic depth to it, what with posters and advertising and products\u2014it was much more liberal than we expected.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Well it takes Communism to develop a really pure Capitalism. Is this your first exhibition in Asia?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: I had an exhibition in Seoul at Park Rui Seouk, a Korean gallery.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Gavin Turk, \u201cDuck Rabbit (Black)\u201d, rabbit pelt, fibreglass and wood, 90 x 120 x 90 cm; (35 3\/8 x 47 1\/4 x 35 3\/8 in.), 2005. Copyright the Artist. Courtesy Ben Brown Fine Arts, London.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: The trouble with looking at your work is where to begin\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: I tried really hard to present something that could cover a few bases and consider a wider range of art rather than just throw the audience into a current project where everything has one sense to it, like an installation, to show something with a slightly retrospective feel. There are some older works in it. There\u2019s one piece, a neon sculpture, from 1994. I thought it was important to make some sort of an introduction to the audience here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Looking at the span of your work, and looking at things like Post-Modernism now\u2014just a continuation of Modernism by other means, where so much of your work is about recycling, whether images or litter\u2014 what is innovation now? Is it possible to innovate any more?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: Well I was trying to think about this, this sense of \u2018superseding\u2019 or the idea of art history\u2014of the way we understand<\/em> art history\u2014in a canonical fashion, with every generation producing a greater, better and more relevant artist for that period. I think if my art is to be subjected to [the art of ] other people, to be ransomed to art history, looking into how other artists think and work, to deal with how my art is always in service to other people\u2019s art, I think it is probably the space that I want to occupy, the space between these artists, or the space created when you mix up strange bedfellows, when you mix up quotations and ideas and thoughts and contemporary packaging, when you mix up logos of products on the street today, when you mix those up with an idea that comes from an artist working at the turn of the century\u2014how that functions. I guess we\u2019re trying to approach the matter sideways.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Gavin Turk \u201cVeggie Box\u201d, 2014. \u00a9 the Artist, Courtesy Ben Brown Fine Arts<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Obviously in your work artists and their work are media, but also the movements themselves \u2014so Pop and Conceptualism are also just media.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: I try to think of formal and intellectual relationships to art. And also formal relationships to things that exist in the world and the technology required to make those things, and also to the intellectual investment in those modern things that we have around us. The art I make is fairly conventional. I mean that in the sense that, for instance, at the moment I don\u2019t do that much work that involves electricity [laughing], except perhaps neon lights, but neon is already a dated material. It has a history inherent in it, whereas now a lot of people are moving into LED, for instance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: I\u2019m also thinking of the merging of different things, such as your double portrait series, \u201cGunslinger\u201d, which combines Warhol and Sid Vicious, a melding of Punk and Pop.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: It is a much more recent image than the sculpture I made back in \u201893 which was a waxwork sculpture of me as Sid Vicious. In 2004 I photographed it and turned it into this very Warhol-style screen-printed image. So it was a strange appropriation of my own history as well, using other artists to do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Gavin Turk \u201cMappa del Mundo\u201d 2008. \u00a9 the Artist, Courtesy Ben Brown Fine Arts (note the refernce to Vito Acconci).<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Does that mean Punk and Pop are eating themselves?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: Probably\u2014and art! Maybe it already did and we\u2019re picking through the bits that came out the other end! (Laughing).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: You can see where I am moving to with all of this. You also made the wax sculpture of yourself as David\u2019s Marat. There are a number of different starts to Modernism, but we can look at that painting and say that it is probably one of them. And here it is turned into something like a Catholic icon of martyrdom. And at the same time Modernism is also about death, in the sense of a disruption, a revolution, transforming and destructive. And now Modernism seems to be coming to some kind of endpoint\u2014albeit a very long, drawn-out one!\u2014and I am wondering, what happens with this role of disruption\u2014can art still be disruptive?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: For me the role of the artist isn\u2019t entirely to be disruptive. It is a simple musing or poetic form. Rather than simply being a reflection of death it can be a musing on that process. The notion of postmodernism\u2014and it\u2019s quite interesting to still be able to use the term because all too often we are trying to get rid of it or we don\u2019t know what to do now that we have chucked modernism away, and we have got postmodernism\u2014 seems to have been wholly focused on this idea of the end of art and the death of art. But having said that, there doesn\u2019t seem to be any kind of alternative. We\u2019re stuck in a cycle or a loop. I don\u2019t necessarily think it\u2019s a bad thing. Obviously for art there is still a process of trying to question ideas of reality. I like to think art can question people\u2019s preconceptions, the notions that people have about art which died there. But actually the preconception itself was conceived on uncertain footing, somehow misguided.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Maybe this disruption you mentioned before is the attempt to try and dislodge some preconceptions that are unfounded.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Does it succeed or\u2014?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Gavin Turk,  \u201cPK2\u2033, painted fibreglass, 58 x 50 x 26 cm; (22 7\/8 x 19 3\/4 x 10 1\/4 in.), 1998. Copyright the Artist. Courtesy Ben Brown Fine Arts, London<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: (Laughing) Well, sometimes it has a good go at it! Others possibly not. But there\u2019s no harm in trying.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Sorry, it\u2019s an impossible question to answer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: But it\u2019s still a question that continually needs to be asked. It\u2019s similar to the question, who is the audience? It guides the process and it leaves these unanswerable questions. It is the engine that keeps art plodding along.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Are there limits to this conversation?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: Often as you attempt to dislodge a preconception, you may replace it with another, which is also not entirely correct. I think that as art is seen through different filters, cultural contexts, economic contexts, time frame contexts, art does shift and change and the philosophies that are inherent to the art of the time change and people come to art and look at art in different ways. They have a kind of use, of art for that specific local point in time and space when they come into contact with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Speaking of cultural and economic contexts, there are certain threads that can apply universally, one of which you pick up on is the rubbish that is expelled by people, such as polystyrene, [note a further Punk connection here: Poly Styrene, the singer] an object that is mainly air and the moment it is produced, it is already degrading relatively quickly. And you have used different sorts, such as burger packets.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: Originally, the uses of polystyrene for me were twofold. The first use was teacups\u2014something quintessentially British to do is to drink tea from a polystyrene cup, so you could take it outside. My conceit was to suggest we take it outside to look at the English landscape, which is a culturally defining moment, as we can see from Constable, Turner, Henry Moore and John Ruskin\u2019s romantic idea of the English countryside. So this polystyrene cup of wasted tea was a cultural distillate. Similarly there was a little plate\u2014a little tray\u2014another cultural clich\u00e9 that [suggests] everyone in the UK wanders around eating fish and chips the whole time. Also I wanted to cast it into bronze and then paint it, and polystyrene can be invested straight away and then be burnt out and replaced with bronze, so you can use \u201clost polystyrene\u201d process of casting, and get really high, wonderful detail, with all the little grains. You can\u2019t see it\u2019s a painting\u2014a trompe l\u2019oeil<\/em>, a deception, something that isn\u2019t what you think it is. Or, to put it another way, it is what you think it is until you know it isn\u2019t what you thought it was. But it is also still<\/em> what you thought it was. And in the exhibition here I have a polystyrene boxes<\/s> that you find in the markets here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Someone at the opening asked me \u201cwhy is the box you made iconic?\u201d And I thought, no, it\u2019s not iconic\u2014the box before was iconic!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Gavin Turk,  \u201cPort (Yellow)\u201d, neon, 216 x 100 x 6 cm; (85 1\/8 x 39 3\/8 x 2 3\/8 in.), 2012. Copyright the Artist. Courtesy Ben Brown Fine Arts, London<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: You\u2019re exploiting the icon.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: Yes and also my own history, in relation to my own work. I am trying to expose the audience to the idea that art is simply cultural redistribution, something that exposes the side of us that is cultural rather than personal\u2014the bit of us that is us as opposed to that which is made around us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Were you at all inspired by M\u00e9ret Oppenheim\u2019s \u201cObject\u201d, the fur teacup? (1)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: I love that piece! Yes, I am totally inspired by her. She is a very interesting artist, an artist who made a few works that have immediately struck really deep. There\u2019s this thing about being uncanny, about being unnerved, something you know and something you obviously don\u2019t know rising at exactly the same moment, which I think is really the definition of surrealism.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: I guess this is what I was getting at with regard to disruption, because you use surrealism quite a lot in your work. I was looking at your polished clay heads and also these takes on Magritte, who was trying to make something uncanny, unworldly. (2) So art that was uncanny already, you\u2019ve recycled its uncanny-ness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: [Laughing] Hopefully! I quite like that\u2014I don\u2019t mind saying that is something that I like!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: The final question I would like to ask is, looking at the polystyrene box\u2014it\u2019s a fake box and a camouflage box, and you also take on Andy Warhol\u2019s idea of camouflage as well\u2014looking at paint as camouflage, at paint as something to hide behind, looking at identity. An ongoing theme in your work is self-portraiture \u2014although not to make self-portraits, but to undermine them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GT<\/strong>: I might make a work that has my face in it. I\u2019m simultaneously talking about portraiture in art and a series of art works that return the audience to the philosophical concepts of art, we can call it modernism or postmodernism, so all art is a process of self-portraiture. My image is used then as \u2018Not-a-Warhol\u2019, but also as \u2018Not-me\u2019. Quite often people mistake this. People say I want to be Andy Warhol, simply putting myself in place of Andy Warhol. And this closes everything down. The question about Andy Warhol is not so straightforward as whether one can be Andy Warhol. I can\u2019t replace something with me. I\u2019m not sure what \u201cme\u201d is\u2014\u201cme\u201d is using mixed identity. This is not being me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

* This interview took place by telephone on September 25, 2014.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Notes<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

1. M\u00e9ret Oppenheim (Swiss, 1913\u20131985) \u201cObject\u201d Paris, 1936. a teacup and saucer with teaspoon all covered with the fur of a Chinese gazelle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

2. for example, \u201cGodot\u2019s day off\u201d and \u201cCripple\u201d 1999.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

by Chris Moore \u58a8\u864e\u607a Gavin Turk \u201cA\u201d a … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":8784,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[17],"tags":[5323,95,633,5324,98,35,29,374,393,646,114,210,230,648],"yoast_head":"\nNot being Me \u2014 Interview with Gavin Turk - \u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"zh_CN\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Not being Me \u2014 Interview with Gavin Turk - \u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"by Chris Moore \u58a8\u864e\u607a Gavin Turk \u201cA\u201d a … Continue reading →\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"\u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2014-11-03T04:41:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2023-02-08T04:45:10+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/image-39.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"660\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"541\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Christopher Moore\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"\u4f5c\u8005\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Christopher Moore\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"\u9884\u8ba1\u9605\u8bfb\u65f6\u95f4\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"12\u5206\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Christopher Moore\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/#\/schema\/person\/21b1847a0437023bf9ee1aec41477222\"},\"headline\":\"Not being Me \u2014 Interview with Gavin Turk\",\"datePublished\":\"2014-11-03T04:41:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2023-02-08T04:45:10+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/\"},\"wordCount\":2291,\"commentCount\":0,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/#organization\"},\"keywords\":[\"Ben Brown Fine Art\",\"China\",\"Christopher Moore\",\"Gavin Turk\",\"Hong Kong\",\"interview\",\"Ran Dian\",\"randian\",\"randian online\",\"\u4e2d\u56fd\",\"\u58a8\u864e\u607a\",\"\u71c3\u70b9\",\"\u827a\u672f\u5bb6\",\"\u9999\u6e2f\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Features\"],\"inLanguage\":\"zh-CN\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/\",\"url\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/not-being-me-interview-with-gavin-turk\/\",\"name\":\"Not being Me \u2014 Interview with Gavin Turk - 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