{"id":1274,"date":"2018-03-20T08:54:00","date_gmt":"2018-03-20T08:54:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/?p=1274"},"modified":"2022-09-27T05:23:52","modified_gmt":"2022-09-27T05:23:52","slug":"mondo-condo-exploring-the-extreme-vision-of-george-condos-work","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/zh-hant\/mondo-condo-exploring-the-extreme-vision-of-george-condos-work\/","title":{"rendered":"Mondo Condo \u2013 Exploring the Extreme Vision of George Condo\u2019s Work"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

by Chris Moore \u58a8\u864e\u607a<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cExpanded Portrait Compositions\u201d
Hong Kong Maritime Museum
<\/strong>27 Mar 2018 \u2013 06 April 2018<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

George Condo\u2019s first solo show in Hong Kong, \u201cExpanded Portrait Compositions\u201d, opens at the Hong Kong Maritime Museum. Organized by Spr\u00fcth Magers<\/strong><\/a> and Skarstedt<\/strong><\/a>, it comprises major new work by one of the most influential living painters. A major sculpture by George Condo will also be on view at Almine Rech Gallery<\/strong><\/a> and Simon Lee Gallery<\/strong><\/a> at Art Basel Hong Kong.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ran Dian<\/em>\u2019s Chris Moore recently spoke with George Condo about the show, Basquiat and falling down stairs with a painting.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Chris Moore: <\/strong>You\u2019re planning a show for Hong Kong?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

George Condo:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Where are you at with that now?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> Fairly well along to be honest. I\u2019ve been enjoying working on it. What I have in mind is, I\u2019m going to show some figure compositions on canvas and then some abstractions that are based on the human portraits . . . it\u2019s just an interesting prospect to be working towards a show in Hong Kong rather than let\u2019s just say having something in an art fair.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM<\/strong>: Is this your first time in China?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Monika Spr\u00fcth, George Condo at the exhibition \u2018Bilder-Zeichnungen\u2019,
Monika Spr\u00fcth Galerie, Cologne, 1984 \u00a9 Spr\u00fcth Magers<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> Yes. I had something in Beijing years ago when the Pace Gallery first opened there in 2008. It will be my first real solo exhibition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> [laughs] Well, that\u2019s a good way to put it! I know that you\u2019re going to have some figurative work and some abstract work, and I\u2019ve just been reading that you don\u2019t think that there is such a thing. Abstract and figurative, it\u2019s actually all the same thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC<\/strong>: Well it is. In my opinion, from let\u2019s say a philosophical perspective, in the picture plane, a figure and an abstraction basically represent some reflection of the human mind more than they reflect whatever it is that they supposedly represent. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a difference and I don\u2019t think that the critical discussion on portraiture or abstract painting has really explained the similarities between the two things all that concisely. I feel as if it leans towards the easier way of describing things as something abstract being purely abstract. Whereas nothing is abstract unless it\u2019s abstracted from<\/em>reality or from some recognizable form. Otherwise in fact, it\u2019s not an abstraction; it\u2019s just a thing and nothing more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM: <\/strong>\u2014It\u2019s terminology to allow you to speak about something, and this is the term real or artificial, abstract or figurative. These are artificial terms in the first place. We use them because that\u2019s what we need in order to express ourselves with language.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> Well yes, but the language itself can evolve to further explain things in a more concise manner, for example, and it does when it comes down to deciphering the being or the appearance of being for a particular object.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For example, a Modigliani portrait; are we looking at the appearance<\/em> of being or are we looking at the representation<\/em> of being, in the sense of that person that was originally sitting there is now an abstract representation of that original person. What is that? It\u2019s a transmission from the artist onto a canvas that supersedes the original object that he is representing. I think that transposition of the artist\u2019s sense of reality and reality itself is quite exciting in art. Not to mention, that a painting in and of itself is not a human.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> I think this is what gets lost a lot in more recent painting that we\u2019re seeing. There\u2019s been so much generalized abstraction out there. There\u2019s mixing of concepts. With cubism, it\u2019s not about how a painting is made but how you look at a painting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> Yes, and how you look at that object as a painting. Also, when you talk about Cubism, it\u2019s the way that we can see things by simply moving around a table. But when you\u2019re dealing with a frozen image\u2014that\u2019s what I mean by a picture plane, where it could only exist upon that picture plane but can be seen<\/em> from the different angles if you were to walk around the object simultaneously\u2014where I\u2019ve talked about psychological cubism, we can explore in one single portrait the various different conflicting and contrasting and harmonious, let\u2019s say, emotional states of mind, all at the same time. In other words, you\u2019re seeing somebody, two weeks ago that was having a mental breakdown, and then two weeks later, having the best day of their life, simultaneously. The time lapse between those particular emotions doesn\u2019t necessarily have to be within the split second that you\u2019re observing them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We\u2019re also thinking about the viewer. In order to fully understand a painting, one does have to somehow interpret the viewer. . . If you walk up to somebody staring at the \u201cMona Lisa\u201d and you ask ten people what they are looking at, they\u2019ll probably all tell you the same thing, and it\u2019s something they read somewhere before, \u201cLooking at her smile and trying to figure it out.\u201d They might tell you something that\u2019s a preconceived notion, but if you really dig into their psyche and actually try to find out what they are seeing, they might be seeing more of an autobiographical sketch in their mind and trying to find a way out of it personally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In other words, they are looking at something that they don\u2019t necessarily want to have as a personal representation, other than an experience of having seen it, but in fact, with good art, you basically see yourself in it when you look at it. When you look at a great work of art, somewhere along the line you see yourself. And this is what they most often shy away from. You see yourself either in an abstraction or a figurative work. Even in a landscape you see yourself. You see yourself imagining being in that landscape because it looks so beautiful. You look at a Monet, and you see yourself going there and standing in the shadows looking at the flowers. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Well think of people looking at your pictures and how they\u2019re feeling!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> Well, I do! I think they see themselves; they see themselves having a nervous breakdown [laughs].<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> People are projecting into it. This is their way of empathizing; it\u2019s how they relate to what they\u2019re seeing. It\u2019s the simplest emotion, very, very human, the most immediate. But at the same time, you\u2019re also framing that person. You\u2019re catching them unawares, and saying, \u201cHere you go, this is you!\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC: <\/strong>Yes\u2014this is you! And all of us!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM: <\/strong>When you\u2019re making a work, there\u2019s the process of making, and it changes over time. You might have a clear idea of what you want to do, to begin with, but in the very process there\u2019s this whole thinking rigmarole that\u2019s going on, and you\u2019re looking at it and it\u2019s changing. Look at something like \u201cCat Faced Nun\u201d (2010) where you got to a certain point, and there\u2019s this cat and it\u2019s almost like you just tried to scrub it out. Or it\u2019s like that moment where the Picasso looks at Gertrude Stein saying, \u201cI can\u2019t see you anymore?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
George Condo, \u201cCat Faced Nun\u201d, acrylic and oil on canvas, 183 x 152 cm, 2010, \u00a9 Spr\u00fcth Magers<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Falling Down the Stairs<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Are you at the changing point now? Because I was looking at your  \u201cThe End of Bank Street\u201d (2016) \u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> [laughs] \u201cThe End of Bank Street\u201d<\/em> was about the last painting I ever did at that place that I was living at on Bank Street in the West Village. It ended up in a very rough situation because I was running down the stairs and my shoe fell off. I slammed down the stairwell on to my face, and ended up having to go to the emergency ward. I had this incredible black eye. I thought, \u201cJeez, I must have broken something.\u201d But I hadn\u2019t. When I came back, I was fine. I just looked like I\u2019d been in a boxing match.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

(CM: It\u2019s surprising how often George Condo has had accidents or some health scare or other, whether falling down stairs or Legionnaire\u2019s Disease in Berlin. Just read on.)<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Everything was starting to deteriorate at Bank Street. There was one diptych upstairs that I had started on New Year\u2019s Eve. For some reason, I was out at a bar by myself, and all these characters that were in the bar and they all said, \u201cLet\u2019s go back to your house. We all want to be painted.\u201d I painted all these lunatics that I\u2019d just met that night. Then I threw them out of the house about two in the morning and said, \u201cAlright I\u2019m going to bed.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

After I fell down the stairs a week later, I went upstairs and I just realized: this painting is going to have to fall down the stairs. It turned out to be a cool piece because it was a total car crash painting, figurative abstraction and just throwing everything at it that I had in the studio. I knew I was leaving and that was going to be the last painting I was ever going to make at that place. It was like, what a way to end a two-year rental? <\/em>That was The End of Bank Street<\/em>. I was glad it was over, I got to say.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Do you feel like you\u2019re shifting in a new direction? It\u2019s so hard to say for somebody who can adapt and absorb and steal from so many of the painters of art history, and then you can come up with your own thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> You have to look at it like: if you are obsessed with art as an artist, and you love art, rather than just say go to an exhibition at the Met or the Prado, the first time an artist goes to the Vel\u00e1zquez room at the Prado, and if they don\u2019t come back so impressed that something of that room doesn\u2019t end up in their paintings, they either missed it, or it\u2019s not impressive enough to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In my case, it leaves such a deep<\/em> impression on me, art. And that goes back to looking at it and thinking to myself, \u201cWow, how did he do that? How did he make that? How did he control his palette to the point where there\u2019s maybe four or five colors used, but they\u2019re creating so many different tonalities, hues, shades?\u201d There\u2019s so much going on that that\u2019s a true master. And I want to go back, and I want to paint something. I don\u2019t necessarily want to replicate the subject matter of the painting. What I want to do is apply that technical information to my own content. By doing that you superimpose, to a certain degree, the presence<\/em> of that art. You\u2019re simply referencing the way<\/em>something looks but not the actual look. You\u2019re replicating the look of something without that something that it looks like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In other words, I might get a lot out of Goya<\/strong>\u2019s (1746-1828) black paintings, but I\u2019m going to transpose that information into my own subject matter. It\u2019s quite evident, in my case and I think in a lot of artists\u2019 cases whose works I like, you can feel it. If I look at C\u00e9zanne<\/strong> (1839-1906); it\u2019s pretty obvious that he was impressed with Chardin<\/strong>\u2019s (1699-1779) still-lifes and that he found a way to retain the presence of Chardin and his still-lifes and break free from just being an artist who quoted Chardin. Or that Picasso was very impressed with Rembrandt; he was very impressed with Toulouse-Lautrec, totally impressed with Cranach<\/strong> (1472-1553). He was totally impressed with Degas\u2019s brothel scenes. He was impressed with \u201cLas Meninas\u201d (1656), impressed with the \u201cLe D\u00e9jeuner sur l\u2019herbe\u201d (1863). He took all those pieces and those paintings; he literally took them apart and dissected them and recomposed the parts to create something of those subjects. In his case, he did use the subject matter and painted it his own way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In my case, I don\u2019t use the subject matter. I just use the technical information of how those subjects were created. That\u2019s the difference between my work and Picasso\u2019s. I don\u2019t actually go out there and do the \u201cLe D\u00e9jeuner sur l\u2019herbe\u201d. I may just simply say, it\u2019s figures in a garden. The black is painted with a blue and a black combined, mixed with a brown and a black combined, which gives you a different alternation of depth, like someone like Frans Hals<\/strong> (1582-1666) might do. All of a sudden, you\u2019ve got Frans Hals\u2019 blacks that most likely Manet had studied or Velazquez\u2019s blacks that Manet had obviously studied and they\u2019ve transposed that use of how to work the color black into their paintings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
George Condo, \u201cThe End of Bank Street\u201d, oil pigment stick and metallic paint on linen, 182.9 x 248.8cm, diptych, 2016 \u00a9 Spr\u00fcth Magers<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Jean-Michel Basquiat and John Coltrane<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> There are very few artists working contemporarily now that I can compare with you. You\u2019ve really gone off on your direction, completely. What other artists were around you? You<\/em> feel somehow it\u2019s not the same ideas but the same approach as well. I could mention Basquiat<\/strong> (1960-1988) given that you and he were friends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> Yes. Take for example Jean-Michel\u2019s work. He was well aware of de Kooning; he was well aware of Cy Twombly<\/strong> (1928-2011), he was well aware of Picasso\u2019s primitivist paintings, taking African sculptures and working them into Western philosophical paintings. He was aware of all that. Then he combined that with the rejection of low art or street art. He brought it up to the level of\u2014and in his case improvising on styles of those particular painters\u2014because he was very into Charlie Parker, very into jazz\u2014the way those jazz artists improvised on popular themes in music. They might do a \u201cstandard\u201d, like the way John Coltrane did \u201cMy Favorite Things\u201d; it\u2019s a Rodgers and Hammerstein tune.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When you put it in the hands of John Coltrane <\/strong>(1926-1967), you\u2019ve got a recognizable theme, and then you\u2019ve got this complete improvisational abstraction. He played it from \u201861 or \u201862, when it was first recorded and throughout the rest of his life at every single live performance. Jean-Michel was using that language and improvising on that language but creating his own themes. That was very similar to me where he was using languages, but basing them all on his own themes. It\u2019s somewhat the reverse of a Coltrane thing where he improvised on a well-known theme whereas what I do and what Basquiat did was, we create our themes and then use all a multiple of visual languages as our improvisation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC<\/strong>: It was easy to hang out with Basquiat because we did such different things. I was working with old master stuff and taking parts and pieces from every old master painting that I ever liked and just reassembling them into completely new images. He was taking parts and pieces from the history of modernism and abstraction and assembling them back into the figurative form that represented his own autobiographical life, like \u201cHollywood Africans\u201d (1983).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I remember that painting he did in LA, when he was having the show in \u201881, I think it was. At that time, I was out there, and I remember Rammellzee<\/strong> (1960-2010), Toxic<\/strong> (Torrick Ablack<\/strong>, b.1965) and some other guy and they all ended up in the painting because all of us were out in LA at that moment and we weren\u2019t in the Hollywood film business by any means, so we were like, \u201cWhat are we doing out here?\u201d There really wasn\u2019t much of an art scene except for Ed Ruscha<\/strong> (b.1937). Of course, since then it\u2019s evolved dynamically.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2026<\/strong>When I went to Paris, I was a displaced human. When Basquiat was over in Paris, we were both relatively displaced. I think that displacement allows you to be more of yourself. When you\u2019re out of your tribal context in New York City amongst your crew, you become an individual rather than a member of a community. Being that individual can be painful, but also\u2014and in his case it was\u2014because there was such an element of racism that was so prevalent back then that when he wasn\u2019t in New York and people didn\u2019t know him as an art star; they just thought he was some degenerate. It was really terrible. It was very saddening to see that people could not understand that they were in the presence of a really great artist, just because he was a black man.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It was part of the thing that really brought him down psychologically and put him into that situation where the drugs and everything got the better of him. Fortunately, he opened the cultural gap, where he was the first real black artist superstar. There were of course other great artists working at the same time, such as David Hammons, but people didn\u2019t know them. Basquiat was the first one. He was like the Jimi Hendrix of painting because the whole audience was essentially white at that time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
George Condo, \u201cThe Great Schizoid\u201d, oil on linen, 150 x 200cm, diptych, 2016, \u00a9 Spr\u00fcth Magers<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Disturbing Guattari<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Reading the many different articles and interviews on you, the one I liked the most is F\u00e9lix Guattari<\/strong>\u2019s. It doesn\u2019t often deal with things directly, but it brings up this uncertainty, this sort of haunting thing. At the same time, he talks about what it was like living below your studio, waking up and hearing you wandering around at night, fighting with your canvasses, getting them to work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> That\u2019s an audio experience of something where you\u2019re hearing something being made. You don\u2019t know what\u2019s being made and you can\u2019t see what\u2019s being made, but you\u2019re hearing it being made. Guattari was unfortunately subject to that. I asked him all the time. I said, \u201cIs it bothering you F\u00e9lix that I\u2019m up there working like that?\u201d He said, \u201cNo, no, no. I just like to come up and see what you\u2019re doing.\u201d We would hang out all the time. I would come down to his place and he would come up to my place. He had a lot of interesting art in his house as well. He had a lot of [Antonin] Artaud<\/strong> (1870-1952) drawings and he had been working on his big book on schizophrenia he wrote with [Gilles] Deleuze. He was tuned in to art, but the thing that was great about F\u00e9lix was he understood the idea of creating a constant in the swirling madness of the variables. An organized state of chaos, I think is how he described the situation. Here we are in the world today where there\u2019s another chaotic situation, another hurricane of chaos happening. Within that eye of the hurricane, there has to be some constant that is not necessarily a negative constant, let\u2019s just say. There can be a positive constant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Hang on a moment there. The present incumbent of the White House looks<\/em> like he escaped from one of your paintings!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> Yes, there are definitely mutations of some sort! I don\u2019t know if these mutations are going to remain and continue mutating until they mutate out into nowhere, which is what everybody hopes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Taking a sharp segue, a lot of your paintings, they\u2019re very stagy; they have a very theatrical presence. There\u2019s the figure standing in the front of it and then behind is generally a very neutral background. They might appear to be standing on a stage or on a floor or something. You\u2019ve got a sense of space, but that\u2019s generally floating in this very neutral background rather than having a narrative background going on behind them. Is there a particular reason for doing that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> When a painting has neutral space around it, there\u2019s a tone where from the light side\u2014let\u2019s say we\u2019re dealing with a portrait\u2014from the light side of the face to the shaded darker part of the face, you\u2019ll notice that the background corresponds in an opposite way. Whereas on the light side of the face, the background will be dark and on the dark side of the face, the background will be light. That\u2019s just the way that Rembrandt or Frans Hals or any of those portrait painters usually framed their portraits. It does something to classicize the constellation of human psychology that might be represented in one of those portraits.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> The one I\u2019m looking at right now is \u201cAntipodal Dream\u201d (1996). <\/em>This 19th century dog-woman with a green clown nose.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
George Condo, \u201cAntipodal Dream\u201d, oil on canvas, 183 x 152.2 cm, diptych, 2016, \u00a9 Spr\u00fcth Magers<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

GC:<\/strong> \u2026 And she\u2019s got a purse and she\u2019s just standing there. That\u2019s a sleepwalker I was thinking of. Somebody that was walking in their sleep so they\u2019ve got dressed up and walked out of their dream. That\u2019s framed, in a strange way, like a classical portrait of this imaginary figure. This whole antipodal thing that was starting in the work during the mid and late \u201890s, that was\u2014I know I\u2019ve said it\u2014but it was based on an understanding of Aldous Huxley\u2019s book \u201cHeaven and Hell\u201d <\/em>(1956), where he talks about how within the human mind, there are figures that live independent of our existence and they have their own existence and they don\u2019t necessarily want you to know that they\u2019re in there. They are living in the periphery to a certain degree, and they are driving forklifts and putting your molecules in place and you, as an artist, are able to tap into that depth of your psyche and see these characters and what they actually look like. And they\u2019re humanoids to a certain degree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But I was thinking about Leonardo Di Vinci, in this one essay that I\u2019d written, where he sort of went on an antipodal safari, where he went into his anatomy, chasing down his antipodal beings, trying to find them nesting in his bones, in his veins, in his heart and his stomach, and his whole anatomy to try to figure where these beings are coming from. By having gone into that degree of a search, he was able to understand the external world so much better and his idea of naturalism came from an understanding of the difference between the internal world and the external world. Ran Dian \u71c3\u70b9<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
George Condo, \u201cStanding Form with Fragmented Head\u201d, 2017, Bronze,181,6 x 75,6 x 74,9 cm, 71 1\/2 x 29 3\/4 x 29 1\/2, inches, Ed 1\/3 + 1 AP, Courtesy of the Artist and Almine Rech Gallery. Photo: Adam Reich<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\"\"
Shipwrecked, 2017
Signed and dated \u2018Condo 2017\u2032 (upper left)
Acrylic, metallic paint, charcoal, pastel, graphite and colored pencil on linen Unframed: 177.8 x 177.8 cm (70 x 70 in.)
Framed: 186.1 x 186.1 x 8.9 cm (73 1\/4 x 73 1\/4 x 3 1\/2 in.) (SLG-GC-09771)
Courtesy of the artist and Simon Lee Gallery, London \/ Hong Kong<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

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