{"id":144,"date":"2021-10-02T08:21:00","date_gmt":"2021-10-02T08:21:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/?p=144"},"modified":"2023-03-02T11:01:50","modified_gmt":"2023-03-02T11:01:50","slug":"rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/zh-hant\/rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee\/","title":{"rendered":"Rui Matsunaga and the Myth of Survival"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

\u4f5c\u8005\uff1aby: Alice Gee \u8bbf\u8c08
\u8bd1\uff1atranslated by: Song Yu \u5b8b\u96e8\uff0cPhD candidate at Nanjing University<\/p>\n\n\n\n


Rui Matsunaga \u2013 The Myth of Survival Dai<\/a>wa Anglo-Japanese Foundation<\/a> <\/strong>(13\/14 Cornwall Terrace, Regent\u2019s Park, London) September 10\u2013November 26, 2021<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Rui Matsunaga, a Japanese artist based in Yamaguchi, is obsessed with the end of the world. Over five years she has examined the \u2018apocalypse\u2019 through various perspectives: the works of D\u00fcrer, animism, tribal and religious myths, and climate change. The result? A series of oil paintings and etchings, populated predominantly by tribes of frogs and rabbits, which play out scenarios in an ecological armageddon.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The etchings look as I had expected \u2014 like relics from mystic manuscripts \u2014 but I hadn\u2019t realised how small and bright the oil paintings would be. Electric blue skies, luminous white pebbles and paintwork so fine she catches the disgruntled expression of a haggard moon in the space of a thumbnail.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga in her studio, 2021 (all images courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

As I move, the sun catches on stars and comets texturally embedded into the paintwork. Matsunaga paints one world we immediately see, and one which can only be seen from certain angles, in certain \u2018enlightened\u2019 moments.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Matsunaga\u2019s voice is soft and small, but not subdued: her words fizz with an infectious vibrancy, and 10 minutes into the interview, I realise that the room about us has fallen away. Matsunaga has drawn me into a dance, and we step together fluently through conversations of metaphysics, art and the occult.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>lice <\/strong>G<\/strong>ee<\/strong>: With access to Google and living in such an analytical age, do you think we\u2019re losing our ability to tell or make myths? We used to make them in the absence of \u2018answers\u2019, whereas now we have answers readily at our fingertips?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

R<\/strong>ui <\/strong>M<\/strong>atsunaga<\/strong>: I feel like we still keep going back to the three basic myths: the creation myth, the hero\u2019s journey myth, and also a big one, the end-time myth: \u2018apocalypse\u2019. The works I\u2019m showing you here today centre around this end-time myth. The famous one is, of course, in the Bible, but most religions, spiritual groups, or any tribe have their own end-time myths. I think it\u2019s almost primordial that we have this fear of life and death, and also the way we bear this fear is to create a basic myth. We need it in order to understand who we are in relation to the world we live in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Back when we had tribes, tribal myths helped us understand who we are. A child becoming an adult has a \u2018rite of passage\u2019 or a hero\u2019s journey myth. These rituals help you realise, okay, I am an adult now, I\u2019m going to behave differently. Today\u2019s equivalent myth is, for example, if you wear a school uniform there is a mythology around that: it creates a kind of identity, a symbolic one, and immediately you can place yourself in society: \u2018I study in this place, this is who I am\u2019.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

As long as we live, we need to understand who we are, and we need these stories to make sense of who we are. Even today in a Google world where we can look up anything, still, we need myth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Rui Matsunaga, On the Moon, 2019, Oil on plywood, 20.5 x 15 cm\n(image courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

AG: Talking of searching for your identity, what are your earliest memories of something creative or artistic that inspired you?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM:<\/strong> I guess children\u2019s books and films and TV series \u2014 Godzilla<\/em>, for example. Godzilla\u2019s a powerful monster, but he was just a little salamander, which became exposed to radiation and became humongous and destroyed everything. At first, it\u2019s about fear of monsters and defeating them. Then, on a deeper level, it becomes a social commentary of the dangers around nuclear power in Japan, and then even deeper is the fear or memory of the atomic bomb in World War Two. So I realised: this children\u2019s story, which I enjoyed on a superficial level, was actually expressing much more complex historical and social ideas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: Godzilla<\/em> is a perfect example of the three basic myths: there\u2019s the creation myth of something gigantic from nothing, and an explanation for the seemingly impossible. Then the hero\u2019s journey, which is killing the monster. Then there\u2019s the threat of apocalypse lurking in the background \u2014 a destructive force in the world, the bomb, that could destroy everything.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: So you start with these visual and narrative sources of inspiration, like Durer\u2019s Apocalypse<\/em> series, or the Bible. But when you sit in front of your \u2018blank canvas\u2019, how do you position these characters and create these wonderful and bizarre compositions and narratives?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: The practical method is that I do a lot of drawings \u2014 especially of the animals. I take a lot from Japanese scrolls and manuscripts, and I draw and stick them onto the wall. My studio is full of drawings. Then I just look at them, and wait for them to create their own stories.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga, Ride of Discord, 2020
Oil on plywood, 20 x 25.5 cm
(image courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Some of them are based on Christian mythologies, or other mythologies. So, there are some basic ideas which I then adapt to today\u2019s context. For instance, how do we now relate to the \u2018Saviour image\u2019? It\u2019s no longer Jesus Christ who is the Saviour image we have. Instead, the image of divinity might be an algorithm, or the image of AI, which might now symbolise transcendence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: A spotlight upon these false idols that we now have, perhaps. There\u2019s one particular piece where there\u2019s a tiger skin on a crucifix that\u2019s been skinned as a sacrifice to human greed\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: \u2026And also, because of a lack of communication, because we don\u2019t communicate with the natural world. We are so mortified by the crucifixion of Christ, why are we not as mortified by the sacrifice of tigers? We can shut down our sensitivity towards not only tigers but also other animals, and we repress our senses and sympathy so that we can eat them. Otherwise, we could not do so. And if we really think about that, it\u2019s a small step away from a wider dullness in society where we have absolutely no emotional sympathy for other beings or for each other, which is so dangerous.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Also, we live in a monotheistic society, so whilst we may no longer have a strong religion, money has become\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: Our new one god.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: Right! So, even love and care have been given a price tag, even \u2018spirituality\u2019 has price tags. Everything now exists in relation to money. And what we are losing as a result is the internal \u2014 the \u2018out of reach\u2019 \u2014 or that which we can only try to pinpoint, through poetry or Oracle tradition or something instinctive. Because we can\u2019t fully grasp this aspect of the world, we can\u2019t put a price tag on it. It\u2019s invisible, and I refer to this internal nature in my work as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga, Chiming Stones, 2016
Oil on plywood, 30 x 40 cm
(image courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga, Chanting Chrysalis 2016
Oil on plywood, 30 x 40 cm<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

AG: It strikes me then that there\u2019s two kinds of decay or environmental crises depicted: one an external, ecological one, but also another of the internal spirit.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: Yes, I think so, and the internal one is more crucial than the outside one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: Perhaps we can\u2019t truly solve the environmental crisis until we solve the internal one. Leading on from that, with the internet and Z<\/strong>oom<\/strong> calls and modern technology, as an animist, how do you feel about this new kind of \u2018interconnectedness\u2019?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: I think it\u2019s a complex issue, because on the one hand, you mentioned for example, when we have virtual meetings, what we have in front of us is actually just a monitor, but we adjust our mind to consider that a real person is in front of us, and we behave in that way, so that our mind is adjusting to that type of new reality that we are forming.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not only that, technology increasingly addresses what we have considered metaphysical before: like immortality and death. Now, science is trying to solve death, as if it\u2019s a technical problem. If you\u2019re elite, you can be treated in various ways, with the aim of anti-ageing and eternal life. So, what is the definition of death? Is it now a technical problem? And if so, then what is the definition of life? These questions used to be divine questions, but now scientists are dealing with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: Before the interview, you mentioned that we need darkness to have light \u2014 and you capture both through violence and humour in your work \u2014 and it struck me that what you\u2019re suggesting, about society looking and seeking for immortality, is that the further we embark on this quest to eradicate the dark, against death, against mortality, the more we compromise the light in the world, until everything is numbed into some grey dullness.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: Yes! And they are also trying to define \u2018what is light?\u2019 \u2018What is consciousness\u2019?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: And then \u2018let\u2019s sell it\u2019!<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: Yes! Yes!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga, Beast from the Sea, Edition of 5 (AP3), 2018,
from the Apocalypse series, Drypoint, 30 x 20.5 cm
(image courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga, Fearful Symmetry, Edition of 5 (AP 3), 2017,
from the Apocalypse series, Drypoint, 30 x 20.5 cm
(image courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

AG: Is your next project about this theme?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: It\u2019s actually about Dante\u2019s Divine Comedy<\/em>. Some people say that Dante actually experienced this journey through hell and paradise. I thought this was interesting, because a Siberian Shaman also had a similar experience, lasting three days. He went into the abyss, and gained knowledge that normal perception doesn\u2019t allow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Again, this story has a hero\u2019s mythology, one which we can apply to our own psychological experiences, or how we deal with the subconscious. We live in reality, but there is another parallel world which is more emotional or metaphorical, which is where a lot of our everyday decisions come from.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: Even if we don\u2019t realise so. Nietzsche uses the characteristics of two Greek gods: Apollo, who represents rationality, and Dionysis, who represents emotions and instincts, to illustrate this internal struggle. But back to the work: how practically, in what medium and style, do you envision this series?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: At this stage \u2014 like the Apocalypse<\/em> series \u2014 I\u2019m doing a lot of drawings and etchings, and then I will paint based on the etchings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

My visualization of the Divine Comedy<\/em> is about going deep inside the psyche. That\u2019s the funny thing about the Divine Comedy.<\/em> It\u2019s almost like Dante suggests that the more you go down and deep into yourself, an ascension happens. It\u2019s a paradox of life: the deeper you go, the wall or mental block you have falls away, and you ascend as a much freer being.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s actually one thing which I\u2019m having a little difficulty with right now. Depicting hell is the easy bit, but depicting heaven is tricky. Botticelli did an amazing job of capturing what is \u2018beyond\u2019 our recognition of beauty. Towards the end of his drawings or etchings, it\u2019s almost like you can\u2019t see the lines anymore, the beautiful flowers and light, they become so faint\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: The boundaries fade away!<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: Yes! How can you contain light!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AG: We spoke earlier of exploring both external and internal crises that humanity faces. I think many of us can relate to going through a really dark moment, having to come back from that, and perhaps then having a radically new perspective on life \u2014 maybe depression, or grief, or living through a plague! Does this depict a personal journey for you too?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

RM<\/strong>: Yeah, totally. As an artist, you have to go there, to those dark places. I was almost thankful that I had art to be able to express those emotions in a way that was both therapeutic, but also helped me to investigate this darkness a lot more. Like you said, after those experiences, life is different, and you read it differently.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Like Dante\u2019s story, it puts you into perspective that all of this, all these experiences, are part of a journey. When you reach the bottom, you need to remember this is not a place you are going to dwell, but this is a journey. All my works illustrate the cycle of life, even my \u2018apocalypse\u2019 series: they are about the end of the world, but also about rebirth. That\u2019s very important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga, On the Moon, 2019, Oil on plywood, 20.5 x 15 cm
(image courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga at Daiwa Anglo-Japanese Foundation, London, 2021<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga, Beast, Edition of 5 (AP 3), 2017
from the Apocalypse series, Drypoint, 30 x 20.5 cm
(image courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\"Rui<\/a>
Rui Matsunaga, Four Riders, Edition of 5 (AP 3), 2017
from the Apocalypse series, Drypoint, 30 x 20.5 cm
(image courtesy the artist)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u4f5c\u8005\uff1aby: Alice Gee \u8bbf\u8c08\u8bd1\uff1atranslated by: Song … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":10080,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[17],"tags":[50,67,65,35,66,29,180,49,6325],"yoast_head":"\nRui Matsunaga and the Myth of Survival - \u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"zh_TW\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Rui Matsunaga and the Myth of Survival - \u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"\u4f5c\u8005\uff1aby: Alice Gee \u8bbf\u8c08\u8bd1\uff1atranslated by: Song … Continue reading →\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"\u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2021-10-02T08:21:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2023-03-02T11:01:50+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/03\/zh-hans\/22Monkey-and-Deer22-oil-on-plywood-15x20.5cm-2016-1500..jpeg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1382\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1040\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"superadminRD\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"superadminRD\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"\u9810\u4f30\u95b1\u8b80\u6642\u9593\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"12 \u5206\u9418\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"superadminRD\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/#\/schema\/person\/c7d92db3b24a5db940c35ad50d444bbc\"},\"headline\":\"Rui Matsunaga and the Myth of Survival\",\"datePublished\":\"2021-10-02T08:21:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2023-03-02T11:01:50+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee\/\"},\"wordCount\":2186,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/#organization\"},\"keywords\":[\"Alice Gee\",\"artist\",\"Daiwa\",\"interview\",\"London\",\"Ran Dian\",\"Ran Dian\",\"Rui Matsunaga\",\"\u677e\u6c38\u5841\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Features\"],\"inLanguage\":\"zh-TW\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee\/\",\"url\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/rui-matsunaga-and-the-myth-of-survival-an-interview-with-alice-gee\/\",\"name\":\"Rui Matsunaga and the Myth of Survival - 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