ShanghART Gallery & H-Space<\/a><\/strong> (Bldg.16 & 18, 50 Moganshan Road, Shanghai). November 13 to December 12, 2011. Opening: Saturday, November 12, 5 \u2013 7\uff1a30 pm.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Chris Moore: Who is MadeIn, how does the company work, how are creative decisions made?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Xu Zhen: <\/strong>MadeIn Company is a method, an administrative structure, a way of playing; each employee of the company composes this system and the art director makes the decisions. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: But why specifically a company instead of, for instance, a \u201ccollective,\u201d a \u201cgovernment,\u201d a \u201cschool\u201d? Unlike other artists, you could choose anything and it would work.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> The model of the company is a certain \u201climited democracy.\u201d The model of the company isn\u2019t perfect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: That sounds like democracy itself but in what ways would you say it is not \u201cperfect\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> \u201cPerfection\u201d is this piece of meat hanging in front of us that we are never able to eat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n IMAGE \u201cDivinity\u2019s Posterior,\u201d plywood, wood. \u201c\u795e\u7684\u81c0,\u201d \u4e09\u5939\u677f\u3001\u6728\u5934, 77 x 252 x 150 cm, 2011\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: MadeIn, what is good criticism?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ: <\/strong>Good criticism is like a good creation; it emanates inner flame.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: That sounds like magic \u2014 are you avoiding the question?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> When criticizing you have to take yourself seriously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: That may not help the critic. In fact, looking at MadeIn\u2019s work, a critic who takes himself seriously might just as well be blind. Isn\u2019t the critic allowed at least a wry smile?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> It is hard to find a critic who has humor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: True. Do I?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> You are really humorous!<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Which if I were a very naive critic I might almost think was flattery! But let\u2019s move on. You are often criticized for being very cynical or sarcastic. Do you consider yourself cynical or is this supposed \u201ccynicism\u201d just a type of sincerity, another way of speaking?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Cynicism can force oneself to present quickly a clear attitude and expectancy, because we are often very passive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: So it\u2019s simply a tool, a method to engage the audience to interact, to bring them out of their torpor? How would you say your first show, \u201cSeeing One\u2019s Own Eyes\u201d, fits into this gambit?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> As one of the methods to begin. \u201cOne of the methods\u201d is very important, because you have to combine different methods, otherwise it would become very unitary. Even a good single method can be very dull. \u201cSeeing One\u2019s Own Eyes\u201d was a series of works that combined cynicism, ego, exploration, digging, exploited differences and various other aspects. Viewers would unconsciously step into different ways or angles of observation to judge the artworks. It is an attitude that jumps across different cultures without staying in any one of them. We hope that viewers feel that they weren\u2019t prepared for it because what they get is an experience that they probably don\u2019t know how to use. This way, this artwork can be boring enough.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Great answer! You speak of \u201ccynicism, ego, exploration, digging\u201d and so on, as if they were types of media in themselves, not mere provocations\u2014a common accusation of MadeIn\u2014but non-unitary machines for thinking, that is, for provoking thought.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> When provoking thoughts, one still needs to think\u2014perhaps this is [the nature of] Sisyphus\u2019s myth? Therefore, we also hope that this kind of behavior adds elements from comedy or farce as much as possible. On top of that, as a result of creativity, artworks indeed become media and multi-functional. And one must excavate their functions. Therefore, our company emphasizes its aim, which is \u201cto produce creativity\u201d, and not creating great works. This is probably the first step.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Doesn\u2019t it help to produce great \u201ccreativity\u201d by producing great art? And what does \u201ccreativity\u201d mean anyway? Are you society\u2019s anthropologist or psychoanalyst?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> The concept of \u201cgreat art\u201d today is very doubtful, because we deeply feel that the situation we are facing now is something like \u201cno matter how much we do, it is never enough.\u201d New desires, requests and fields of action are unceasingly produced and are always harsh, unsatisfied. CM: This brings us back to \u201ccreating creativity\u201d and would appear to reference Marshall McLuhan\u2019s oft misunderstood quote \u201cThe medium is the message,\u201d whereby the message is structurally and materially affected by the form it takes. In the MadeIn cosmos, though, there is no final outcome or message, just unceasing mediation \u2013 a \u201cstream of form.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Like a war, the more you fight, the messier it gets. There are more and more commitments, more and more leads, but at a certain point, you can randomly take something in this \u201cwar\u201d that would explain some questions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Could you put this in the context of your often-controversial wall-works? How have they developed their \u201cmedia\u201d since 2009\u2019s \u201cSeeing One\u2019s Own Eyes\u201d exhibition to their most recent iterations?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> From the misunderstanding in the \u201cMiddle Eastern Contemporary Art\u201d show to the exploration in the \u201cSpread\u201d series, then to the \u201cbeliefs-collage\u201d in \u201cPhysique of Consciousness\u201d, and this time\u2019s \u201cAction of Consciousness\u201d emphasizing the idea of being \u201cin action,\u201d all these works stimulate, complete each other, and are continuously being developed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: What do you mean by the \u201cmisunderstanding\u201d in the MECA show?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> The misunderstanding in observation is a certain supply-demand relation caused by curiosity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: What do you mean by \u201ccuriosity\u201d? After all, what happens when, for instance, such \u201cmisunderstanding\u201d threatens the process itself?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ: <\/strong>Observing curiosity is one of the materials for creating this work. (1) Our work is to adjust this kind of misunderstanding. XZ: <\/strong>\u201cObservation misunderstanding\u201d is only a working starting point and a reason, though it was undoubtedly developed from Xu Zhen\u2019s working methods. After all, Xu Zhen is the director of the company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n *****<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Various Western observers misinterpreted \u201cThe Starving of Sudan,\u201d failing to see its installation as a whole and over-identifying with their own historical context. (2) MadeIn\u2019s new series, \u201cPlay,\u201d involves sculptural montages of people of various ethnicities engaged in traditional Japanese forms of bondage. This looks likely to provoke a similar reaction to the \u201cSudan\u201d work. One could say that people are most blind when they are looking but doesn\u2019t provocation have to be responsible for its own moral ambiguity, the very thing that makes it both interesting and dangerous?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Well said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Is \u201cobservation misunderstanding\u201d then an inevitable side effect of MadeIn\u2019s strategies? If so, it begs the question of what is the objective of MadeIn\u2019s strategies? After all, if there is simply endless mediation of media, a cycle of provocation and reaction, what\u2019s the point?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> What is a \u201cside effect\u201d? The \u201cmediation of media\u201d is only one issue that we are focusing on, or rather it is a certain characteristic that our company created recently. We have been continuously developing new approaches and methods on this basis. Besides, we are more willing to see and believe in \u201cpractice.\u201d We have to practice unceasingly to encounter certain issues.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: How do you practice and how does that differ from other art producers?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ: <\/strong>By creating through managing. The difference lies in who is producing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Could you describe the process of managing? For instance, how is it similar or different to, say, Zhou Tiehai\u2019s selection of images to be produced by members of his atelier?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> The difference is whether you are at the service of someone, or at the service of a brand. For example, during a discussion, there can be some new thoughts and directions, and then the art director will take the decisions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Is this the current point in the evolution of \u201cartists\u201d \u2013 radical management consultants and idea scientists?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> At the same time, the fact of avoiding turns the question in an artistic way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: If in fact it has been avoided. Is MadeIn moral or relativist?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> The value of MadeIn Company is closer to a certain shifting, a continuous changing knowledge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: That sounds like an elision \u2014 is that the answer?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> As long as \u201cmorality\u201d doesn\u2019t become an obstacle to creation, then it\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: And that sounds similar to Nabokov\u2019s critique of the lazy reader \u2014 someone who wants to be spoon-fed instead of asking what the \u201cauthor\u201d is trying to do. What is your ideal \u201cviewer\u201d \u2013 how will she approach MadeIn\u2019s production?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> The ideal viewer never appears when you need them. So don\u2019t worry about them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Are people sometimes too grown-up when they try to understand MadeIn\u2019s production? Does it help to be child-like?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> It doesn\u2019t matter; there aren\u2019t seamless eggs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Would you say that \u201cObservation Misunderstanding\u201d is one of the principle mediums with which MadeIn plays and experiments?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Maybe it could be described as the main content that was created since the establishment of the company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: How would you describe the other or supporting content?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> For example, \u201cexamining,\u201d \u201clooking for enemies,\u201d and \u201crecurrent dissatisfaction\u201d are topics that are being created.<\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> There aren\u2019t differences; it just has to be important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Important \u2013 how?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> As long as you think it is important, then it\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Is your recent \u201cPhysique of Consciousness\u201d project at the Bern Kunsthalle and at Long March Space in Beijing \u2014 which conflates sacred gestures from many religious practices \u2014 an example of how people\u2019s \u201cobservation misunderstanding\u201d operates? Or is it an example of how we are caught within media, that is, how life itself becomes an (endless) effect of media and mediation?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> The main aspect of \u201cPhysique of Consciousness\u201d is \u201ccombination.\u201d Can such a way of composing avoid civilizational conflict? Or must civilizations be in conflict to have a sense of existence? Can it influence our bodies? (Looking at it now, there certainly is an influence). Is time another main element of this work as time for yoga is?<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: In your \u201cSpread\u201d series, the wave, for instance, is both an endless Hokusai tsunami and a Californian \u201cEndless Summer\u201d (3). But then it deconstructs itself, with references to Pop art and cheap artifice \u2014 the fake sun lit up like a Las Vegas motel-vacancy sign. In some sense, is MadeIn, as parodist, seeking to confront us with a comic reality in our own (comic) reality?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Well said, comic is also another parallel reality.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Besides \u201cPlay,\u201d MadeIn\u2019s new work includes \u201cPrey,\u201d realistic paintings of poor homes (emphasized in the catalogue by being \u201cdisplayed\u201d in wealthy homes) and also \u201cAction of Consciousness,\u201d which involves items being thrown up into the air from a secretive booth. All of these works will be shown in the same exhibition. So what connects them?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Providing a relationship that changes the world. To become a beginning or an end again, to liberate those things called \u201cartworks\u201d from the contemporary art system (from consciousness).<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: What does \u201cconsciousness\u201d mean for MadeIn?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> \u201cTo think\u201d is \u201cconsciousness.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: How do you feel that \u201cPrey\u201d develops the status value of art explored in your Beijing show last year, whereby value was ascribed to a photograph according to the value of its subject?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> From a general point of view, this artwork is a \u201cprocess of prey capturing.\u201d At the same time, it is meant to satisfy people\u2019s feelings for classicism, and people\u2019s aesthetic need for \u201cpoverty.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Scale was an important aspect of work by \u201cXu Zhen.\u201d What sort of role does it play for MadeIn?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Scale was generated by needs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: To each according to his needs from each according to their ability?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Needs, supplies, creation, admission, all became today\u2019s new art pattern \u2014 it isn\u2019t simply an artwork (close to the concept of \u201cmultiple authorship\u201d).<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Does or will MadeIn have an oeuvre or is it working hard to avoid one?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> In a competitive mechanism, we use competition to compete.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Compete against what? Many strong competitors use branding, their identifiable \u201cstyle,\u201d to promote themselves. But MadeIn eschews this \u2013 for MadeIn, everything is just, though not purely, media. It subverts this fundamental principle of the art (market) system.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> We want to be the one who hangs the meat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Is MadeIn manufacturing a type of freedom?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> There is no freedom.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Doesn\u2019t MadeIn enjoy types of freedoms, for instance to produce what it produces?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Was this interview free?<\/strong> CM: That bad, huh? Well, for the sake of clich\u00e9, how would you wish to change the world for the better?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Make it chaotic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n *****<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: Does art as a thing really exist (any more)?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Art wouldn\u2019t exist independently.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: True but is the term \u201cart\u201d almost irrelevant to what you do? It seems so old fashioned. Your production could be just as successfully shown in a supermarket, on the street, in a factory, as in an art gallery, if not more so.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: The Russian filmmaker Andrej Tarkovsky wrote, \u201cNever try to convey your idea to the audience \u2014 it is a thankless and senseless task. Show them life, and they\u2019ll find within themselves the means to assess and appreciate it.\u201d Are MadeIn\u2019s ideas successfully communicated?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n XZ: <\/strong>As long as it is communicated, then it\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n CM: What questions should I have asked you? (And which ones would you not have answered?)<\/strong> (Interview conducted over email from September to October 2011.)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Chris Moore interviews MadeIn Company fo … Continue reading ![\"\"](\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2022\/09\/zh-hant\/06_11IMG_0384-682x1024-1.jpg\")
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Creativity refers to the production of new thought, and the ability to discover and create.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
CM: Then is this \u201cobservation misunderstanding\u201d a deliberate effect of the scenarios constructed by MadeIn? For instance, how would MadeIn position this in comparison with, for instance, the strategies of Xu Zhen\u2019s now infamous \u201cThe Starving of Sudan\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2022\/09\/zh-hant\/02_02IMG_0138-682x1024-1.jpg\")
CM: Are some or all of these topics are particularly relevant to society in China now or are these topics \u201cworld\u201d topics?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2022\/09\/zh-hant\/11_18-1024x682-1.jpg\")
XZ:<\/strong> This interview was deep and unforgettable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
XZ:<\/strong> At the moment there aren\u2019t any questions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n