{"id":4110,"date":"2016-04-06T10:24:00","date_gmt":"2016-04-06T10:24:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/?p=4110"},"modified":"2022-12-09T10:24:42","modified_gmt":"2022-12-09T10:24:42","slug":"christian-jankowski-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/zh-hant\/christian-jankowski-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"Christian Jankowski interview"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

by Chris Moore \u58a8\u864e\u607a<\/strong>
translated by Gu Ling \u987e\u7075<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This piece is included in Ran Dian\u2019s print magazine, issue 2 (Winter 2015\u20132016)<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Christian Jankowski (b. 1968) is an artist whose practice involves involving others in his practice, which includes sculpture, painting, installation, interventions, video\u2014you name it. He is the son of Polish parents, which no doubt contributed to his sense of humor. He grew up in G\u00f6ttingen, but apparently that didn\u2019t hold him back. He is a professor at the Staatliche Akademie der Bildenden K\u00fcnste Stuttgart but sensibly chose to live in Berlin. In December 2014, he was appointed curator of\u00a0Manifesta 11,<\/a>\u00a0the European Biennial of Contemporary Art, which will be held in Zurich. Manifesta 10, curated by Kasper K\u00f6nig, was held in St. Petersburg, and was the subject of some controversy due to Russian censorship laws and the events that unfolded in Ukraine.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u514b\u91cc\u65af\u5766\u00b7\u626c\u53ef\u592b\u65af \u57fa\uff0c\u300a\u7f9e\u8fb1\u76d2\u5b50\u300b\uff0c\u5f55\u50cf \u5267\u7167\uff0c2012 \/ Christian Jankowski, \u201cShame Box\u201d, video stills, 2012<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Chris Moore:<\/strong> I was looking at the works you made for the exhibition in Stuttgart\u2014\u201cDienstbesprechung\u201d [Briefing]. Stuttgart is such a boring city\u2014was that the reason for the title? Good grounding for a Manifesta?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Christian Jankowski<\/strong>: It has a lot to do with a Manifesta, yes. It\u2019s very different, but it also puts focus on professions and the switching of professions and perspectives which are offered through different professional activities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Also, Manifesta has\u2014fairly or unfairly\u2014a reputation for not only being the biennial of Europe, but also the European Union Biennial, something very administrative.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong> It is, and it\u2019s also the [biennial] where the profession of the curator has been looked into in great depth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> It\u2019s going to be the 100th<\/sup> anniversary of the Dada movement, and it\u2019s based in Zurich, which is one of the centers of Dadaism. Often when people think of Dada, obviously the main protagonist is Duchamp. It\u2019s an arguable case that he was a greater curator than artist. What\u2019s the difference between being an artist and a curator (you are the first artist to curate Manifesta)?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong>\u00a0For me, it\u2019s a chance to play with another role. And it\u2019s a great challenge, after twenty years doing my own projects, to think also about an experimental exhibition form and to link it with my own natural interests as an artist. I felt there is no way I can invent something that does not already exist in me. My interest always had, on one hand, a performative element; and on the other, [involved] reaching out to different audience groups that are normally outside the art world. I thought Zurich is a perfect space for me to do so. I wanted to reach out to companies that are in a way corporate, private or business spaces; for me, that could bring something new.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u514b\u91cc\u65af\u5766\u00b7\u626c\u53ef\u592b\u65af\u57fa\uff0c\u300a\u8ba8\u8bba\u96c5\u5178\u300b\uff0c\u5f55\u50cf\u5267\u7167\uff0c2003 \/ Christian Jankowski, \u201cTalk Athens\u201d, video still, 2003<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

On the problem of curating for corporations . . .<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong> I was involved in some \u201cKunst-am-Bau\u201d [site specific] projects, for example, for an insurance company. But in the end I felt the discussion was lacking. None of the artists invited there did anything, because suddenly the bosses from the company would come by and say \u201cOh yeah, maybe we should do the same next year but get other new ideas\u201d. I felt the discussion was quite secretive. If something like this happened in the Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna, journalists would write about it. Whereas here [with corporations] it is such a closed circuit that if the concept fails, it is not discussed further\u2014there is not a third eye to judge and ask \u201cWhat\u2019s the problem?\u201d It\u2019s edited out instantly, because they have the money, they own the space and, of course, they have the last word.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> I am wondering whether biennials now can have the potential to be really provocative, because in one sense they are about entertainment and engaging with a public; on the other, there is this critical aspect. I\u2019m wondering whether that critical aspect is now fundamentally flawed or whether the only way a biennial can be really provocative is not to be provocative, but to be controversial\u2014is this the only way that a biennial can really cause a rupture?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that in the beginning, for this kind of experiment, they kind of get married, the artist and the host. If this communication hasn\u2019t worked, this failure can be documented and then contemplated as a failure\u2014or not. But I trust the artists that I choose are not only looking to this fun side. I think they will automatically look also for certain professions where they see it is possible to address this tension. I prefer problems that emerge in a one-to-one negotiation, where the ideas of the artists come in and then there is a response, and then this can develop. I feel it\u2019s nicer that the problem has been created in the process. The start for these encounters should be neutral\u2014you should [first] think everything is possible, and then ask, \u201cWhy isn\u2019t everything possible?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u514b\u91cc\u65af\u5766\u00b7\u626c\u53ef\u592b\u65af\u57fa\uff0c\u300a\u827a\u672f\u5e02\u573aTV\u300b\uff0c\u5f55\u50cf\u5267\u7167\uff0c2008 \/ Christian Jankowski, \u201cArt Market TV\u201d, video stills, 2008<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

The artist is the core<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

For me, the core is always the artist\u2014the artist is choosing the profession. We are working on a list now of all the professions working in Zurich. This will be used as a point of inspiration for invited artists, so that they can \u201ccross\u201d with a profession they are interested in, be close to and co-produce with it. All the professions come with certain ways of making use of art. And I think that\u2019s an interesting point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> You talk of the difficulties of reading not just Manifesta catalogues but lots of art catalogues\u2014it\u2019s the question of accessibility. So how accessible is Manifesta going to be?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong> This is similar to my work where I try to set up certain rules and structures in which one thing follows the next. Of course, it now has to be filled with the ideas of the artists and those people who are collaborating with them. But I\u2019m also very inspired by things that you can sometimes describe in three or four sentences, where even people that have nothing to do with art can think it\u2019s interesting. For example, maybe there is something to a private home which opens up like a public museum so that people walk through the living room to the bedroom and look at works. To me it\u2019s very stimulating. This is maybe not how it is in institutions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I don\u2019t think all art must be visible, but that\u2019s why this sort of work is being put in the third stage of the exhibition, which we call\u2014a poetic name\u2014the \u201cPavilion of Reflections\u201d, to allow a way in which to mediate those micro works or those hidden works, or \u201cidea\u201d works that happen only for one second, which will then be transformed, with the help of media recordings, into something visible and discussable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Can it also fail?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong>\u00a0If you work with two people, sometimes everything or nothing can happen, and if nothing happens, then there is also this \u201creality TV\u201d moment of collision and questions. I would say that even a failed project doesn\u2019t have to mean a failed Manifesta.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u514b\u91cc\u65af\u5766\u00b7\u626c\u53ef\u592b\u65af\u57fa\uff0c\u300a16 \u6beb\u7c73\u79d8\u5bc62 \u300b\uff0c\u5f55\u50cf\u5267\u7167\uff0c2004 \/ Christian Jankowski, \u201c16mm Mystery 2\u201d, video stills, 2004<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Could you also talk about how you must address issues of language and culture\u2014because there is a European audience containing different backgrounds, but there are also audiences beyond Europe who know of Manifesta but may only experience it via a newspaper article or something read online.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, Sepake [Angiama] is Head of Education; I want to involve her more in the Pavilion of Reflections, because it is also a place where you can get a lot of information, and it\u2019s the place where you see the satellites [events\/exhibitions] in a mediated form. In the day time, people should walk round the satellite and then come in the evening and see something, or you might want to go the next day and get more information about the satellite shows you saw. But here there is also a question\u2014I\u2019m thinking about the Pavilion of Reflections and how it\u2019s used, and being the way dOCUMENTA should be, and also to people who are not curators, and so on. I want a language and also questions, through the artists and also the whole of Zurich working on one project, that are not a difficult level to follow. I think it\u2019s great that there are very direct questions\u2014honest questions. Often, when you have established journalists as the moderators, then the host and even the artists switch onto a certain level to represent themselves. If there is suddenly a school class coming by and asking na\u00efve questions, these are often the hardest to answer\u2014and particularly in such a manner that your project is still represented in a complex way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u514b\u91cc\u65af\u5766\u00b7\u626c\u53ef\u592b\u65af\u57fa\uff0c\u300a\u6211\u4eec\u76f8\u9047\u7684\u90a3\u5929\u300b\uff0c\u5f55\u50cf\u5267\u7167\uff0c2003 \/ Christian Jankowski, \u201cThe Day We Met\u201d, video still, 2003<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> Obviously the program is still being developed, but are there other projects that you can talk about?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong> There will be an exhibition consisting of existing work\u2014even if it\u2019s from last week. I have put this in three institutions: the L\u00f6wenbrau building complex [which includes Kunsthalle Z\u00fcrich], the Helmhaus [a museum], and the Cabaret Voltaire. We will completely restructure the Cabaret Voltaire and turn it into the Zunfthaus der K\u00fcnstler [guild house for artists], complete with the Cabaret der K\u00fcnstler.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> This also references the early Dada movement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong>\u00a0Of course that\u2019s part of it. We will also use this stage, which is this icon of Hugo Ball. This is the stage where people can come, and every artist\u2014not only visual artists\u2014is invited to come and be a club member of Cabaret der K\u00fcnstler by submitting a project, which will follow the same concept of collaboration with another profession. So if you want to be part of it, you ask another profession, you give them performance instructions or you collaborate, and this person will be on stage performing it in a cabaret for ten, fifteen minutes. It is an open stage and it will run for 100 nights.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u514b\u91cc\u65af\u5766\u00b7\u626c\u53ef\u592b\u65af\u57fa\uff0c\u300a\u6211\u4eec\u76f8\u9047\u7684\u90a3\u5929\u300b\uff0c\u5f55\u50cf\u5267\u7167\uff0c2003 \/ Christian Jankowski, \u201cThe Day We Met\u201d, video still, 2003<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> So everyone can become a performer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong> Yes! We will take Cabaret Voltaire apart, architecturally\u2014we will make it something more secluded. And during the day it will be used for supporters of Manifesta.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong> That\u2019s interesting, because the cabaret is a kind of [in the spirit of the] joker\u2014it\u2019s like the jester in the medieval castle with the king. It\u2019s about speaking the truth to power and making jokes about it and getting away with it because it is a joke, a song. This is also an opportunity, and a largely unscripted one, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong> It is, because we don\u2019t know what we will get.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CM:<\/strong>\u00a0Which is perhaps the most provocative thing of all\u2026?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u514b\u91cc\u65af\u5766\u00b7\u626c\u53ef\u592b\u65af \u57fa\uff0c\u300a\u8dbe\u9ad8\u6c14\u6602\u300b\uff0c \u6e05\u6f06\u94dd\uff0c\u5c3a\u5bf8\u53ef\u53d8\uff0c 2012 \/ Christian Jankowski, \u201cThe Grand Gesture\u201d, varnished aluminum, dimensions variable, 2012<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CJ:<\/strong> Yes! [Laughs] The other part is that we will invite on stage musicians and fashion designers, too, and people who are trained to be members of a circus, or anyone you might consider an artist. Everybody can submit these performances for other people who are in certain professions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m not going to put my own work on show, but of course this deals with all my interests and is also informed by what I stand for as an artist. I described earlier a kind of win\/win situation\u2014there\u2019s nothing against that. I also think the Manifesta exhibition would win a certain extra point if a few people could see it also as an art work. It wouldn\u2019t mean that it\u2019s bad. For me, there are other examples of artists curating shows that you feel are rather like freak shows\u2014they misused people in their positions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

If this is a good exhibition people will say \u201cOh, Jankowski was the curator and it\u2019s an ok show\u201d, and then I\u2019ll be happy; and if some people ask \u201cAha, hm, is this also an experimental exhibition form that has a lot to do with him\u2014a massive sculpture or performance?\u201d, then I am also fine with that\u2014if it stimulates the thoughts you can have about the exhibition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u514b\u91cc\u65af\u5766\u00b7\u626c\u53ef\u592b\u65af\u57fa\uff0c\u300a\u8ba8\u8bba\u96c5\u5178\u300b\uff0c\u5f55\u50cf\u5267\u7167\uff0c2003 \/ Christian Jankowski, \u201cTalk Athens\u201d, video still, 2003<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Notes<\/p>\n\n\n\n

1. In 1986 Jan Hoet (1936-2014) curated \u201cChambres d\u2019Amis\u201d (Guest Rooms), in which some 50 American and European artists were invited to create works for 50 private homes in Ghent that were then opened to the public for several weeks. Hoet was founder and curator of S.M.A.K. (Stedelijk Museum voor Actuele Kunst or Municipal Museum for Contemporary Art) from 1975 until his retirement in 2003. He also curated dOCUMENTA IX in Kassel (1992).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

2. Cabaret Voltaire was the name of a nightclub founded by Hugo Ball (1886-1927), with his companion Emmy Hennings (1885-1948) on February 1, 1916 as a cabaret for artistic and political purposes. Other founding members included the Surrealist poet Tristan Tzara (1896-1963) and artists Sophie Taeuber-Arp (1889-1943) and Jean Arp (1886-1966).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Christian Jankowski (b. 1968) is an artist whose practice involves involving others in his practice, which includes sculpture, painting, installation, interventions, video\u2014you name it. He is the son of Polish parents, which no doubt contributed to his sense of humor. He grew up in G\u00f6ttingen, but apparently that didn\u2019t hold him back. He is a professor at the Staatliche Akademie der Bildenden K\u00fcnste Stuttgart but sensibly chose to live in Berlin. In December 2014, he was appointed curator of Manifesta 11,<\/a> the European Biennial of Contemporary Art, which will be held in Zurich. Manifesta 10, curated by Kasper K\u00f6nig, was held in St. Petersburg, and was the subject of some controversy due to Russian censorship laws and the events that unfolded in Ukraine.<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

by Chris Moore \u58a8\u864e\u607atranslated by Gu Ling … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":4120,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[17],"tags":[67,232,1708,1709,88,1425,112,35,1710,29,1711,1712,1713,239,210,211,230,231,229],"yoast_head":"\nChristian Jankowski interview - \u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/christian-jankowski-interview\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"zh_TW\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Christian Jankowski interview - \u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"by Chris Moore \u58a8\u864e\u607atranslated by Gu Ling … Continue reading →\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/christian-jankowski-interview\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"\u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2016-04-06T10:24:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2022-12-09T10:24:42+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2022\/12\/image-526.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1365\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"768\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Christopher Moore\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Christopher Moore\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"\u9810\u4f30\u95b1\u8b80\u6642\u9593\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"12 \u5206\u9418\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/christian-jankowski-interview\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/christian-jankowski-interview\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Christopher Moore\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/#\/schema\/person\/21b1847a0437023bf9ee1aec41477222\"},\"headline\":\"Christian Jankowski interview\",\"datePublished\":\"2016-04-06T10:24:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2022-12-09T10:24:42+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/christian-jankowski-interview\/\"},\"wordCount\":2352,\"commentCount\":0,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/#organization\"},\"keywords\":[\"artist\",\"artist interview\",\"Biennale director\",\"Biennial curator\",\"Chris Moore\",\"Christian Jankowski\",\"curator\",\"interview\",\"Manifesta 11\",\"Ran Dian\",\"Ran Dian 2016\",\"Ran Dian interview\",\"Ran Dian issue 2\",\"Ran Dian magazine\",\"\u71c3\u70b9\",\"\u71c3\u70b9 \u6742\u5fd7\",\"\u827a\u672f\u5bb6\",\"\u827a\u672f\u5bb6\u8bbf\u8c08\",\"\u9762\u8bd5\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Features\"],\"inLanguage\":\"zh-TW\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/christian-jankowski-interview\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/christian-jankowski-interview\/\",\"url\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/christian-jankowski-interview\/\",\"name\":\"Christian Jankowski interview - 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