{"id":6380,"date":"2015-03-19T07:32:00","date_gmt":"2015-03-19T07:32:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/?p=6380"},"modified":"2022-12-14T07:34:52","modified_gmt":"2022-12-14T07:34:52","slug":"doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/zh-hant\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/","title":{"rendered":"Doing Time: Interview with Tehching Hsieh"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

By\uff1a Iona Whittaker \u7231\u5b89\u963f
translated by Lu Wanwan \u8def\u5f2f\u5f2f<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Tehching Hsieh is a sprightly, eager person, lively in conversation. He is a seminal figure in the history of performance art, though his original actions were conducted largely in isolation and witnessed at first hand by precious few. Only in recent years has Hsieh\u2014whom Marina Abramovic (a decidedly more visible artist) calls \u201cA Master\u201d\u2014been recognized for his commitment as an artistic figure, conducting himself through a series of performances which serve as profound and decisive investigations into human diligence and experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Born in 1950 in Taiwan, Hsieh arrived in Philadelphia on a ship in 1974, having trained as a sailor as a means to get to America. Before leaving Taiwan, he had made paintings, a performance of duration wherein he turned over a legion of photographic sheets which gradually reacted to the sunlight, then turned them back over again, and jumped from a window, breaking both ankles. His life\u2019s major series of performance art works commenced in 1978 with \u201cOne Year Performance 1978-1979\u201d\u2014the \u201ccage piece\u201d in which Hsieh spent a full year locked inside a wooden cage he built himself in his second floor studio at 111 Hudson Street. \u201cTime Clock\u201d [as it is informally named] followed from 1980-81 (\u201cOne Year Performance 1980-1981\u201d), for which he set himself the task of clocking in and photographing himself every hour for one year. From 1981-2, armed with a sleeping bag, Hsieh stayed outside, forbidding himself from entering any kind of shelter (\u201cOne Year Performance 1981-1982\u201d). July 1983-July 1984 was spent tied to the artist Linda Montano with an 8-foot rope, forbidden from touching (\u201cArt\/Life One Year Performance 1983-1984\u201d). In 1985-6, Hsieh permitted himself no contact with or talking about art\u2014\u201cI just go in life,\u201d read the artist\u2019s statement (One Year Performance 1985-1986). For a final documented piece from 1986-1999 (from his 36th<\/sup> to 49th<\/sup> birthdays), Hsieh promised to make art, but not to show it publicly (\u201cTehching Hsieh 1986-1999\u201d).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In 2009, 31 years after it was first undertaken in Hsieh\u2019s adopted city, the cage and documentation from \u201cCage Piece\u201d were exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art. The same year, \u201cTime Clock Piece\u201d was featured as part of \u201cThe Third Mind: American Artists Contemplate Asia, 1860\u20131989\u201d at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum. Further presentations of selected works have followed\u2014but no retrospective, the form for which Hsieh envisions carefully.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Tehching Hsieh at his studio, New York, 2015. Photo: Iona Whittaker
\u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176\u5728\u4ed6\u7684\u5de5\u4f5c\u5ba4\uff0c\u7d10\u7d04\uff0c2015\u3002 \u5716\u7247\u63d0\u4f9b\uff1aIona Whittaker<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Tehching Hsieh is a sprightly, eager person, lively in conversation. He is a seminal figure in the history of performance art, though his original actions were conducted largely in isolation and witnessed at first hand by precious few. Only in recent years has Hsieh\u2014whom Marina Abramovic (a decidedly more visible artist) calls \u201cA Master\u201d\u2014been recognized for his commitment as an artistic figure, conducting himself through a series of performances which serve as profound and decisive investigations into human diligence and experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Born in 1950 in Taiwan, Hsieh arrived in Philadelphia on a ship in 1974, having trained as a sailor as a means to get to America. Before leaving Taiwan, he had made paintings, a performance of duration wherein he turned over a legion of photographic sheets which gradually reacted to the sunlight, then turned them back over again, and jumped from a window, breaking both ankles. His life\u2019s major series of performance art works commenced in 1978 with \u201cOne Year Performance 1978-1979\u201d\u2014the \u201ccage piece\u201d in which Hsieh spent a full year locked inside a wooden cage he built himself in his second floor studio at 111 Hudson Street. \u201cTime Clock\u201d [as it is informally named] followed from 1980-81 (\u201cOne Year Performance 1980-1981\u201d), for which he set himself the task of clocking in and photographing himself every hour for one year. From 1981-2, armed with a sleeping bag, Hsieh stayed outside, forbidding himself from entering any kind of shelter (\u201cOne Year Performance 1981-1982\u201d). July 1983-July 1984 was spent tied to the artist Linda Montano with an 8-foot rope, forbidden from touching (\u201cArt\/Life One Year Performance 1983-1984\u201d). In 1985-6, Hsieh permitted himself no contact with or talking about art\u2014\u201cI just go in life,\u201d read the artist\u2019s statement (One Year Performance 1985-1986). For a final documented piece from 1986-1999 (from his 36th<\/sup> to 49th<\/sup> birthdays), Hsieh promised to make art, but not to show it publicly (\u201cTehching Hsieh 1986-1999\u201d).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In 2009, 31 years after it was first undertaken in Hsieh\u2019s adopted city, the cage and documentation from \u201cCage Piece\u201d were exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art. The same year, \u201cTime Clock Piece\u201d was featured as part of \u201cThe Third Mind: American Artists Contemplate Asia, 1860\u20131989\u201d at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum. Further presentations of selected works have followed\u2014but no retrospective, the form for which Hsieh envisions carefully.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Tehching Hsieh at his studio, New York, 2015. Photo: Iona Whittaker
\u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176\u5728\u4ed6\u7684\u5de5\u4f5c\u5ba4\uff0c\u7d10\u7d04\uff0c2015\u3002 \u5716\u7247\u63d0\u4f9b\uff1aIona Whittaker<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Iona Whittaker<\/strong>: You don\u2019t very often give interviews, do you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Tehching Hsieh<\/strong>: No, I always feel I am repeating myself\u2014you know, similar questions. But I forget, too. Every time it\u2019s new! I just say what I know, simply.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: You seem like a practical person.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: I don\u2019t write because I\u2019m not a language person, I just do. [Laughs<\/em>]. I feel my work needs some sort of bridge; every conversation means I learn a different point of view. I have my way to approach things. Some people want you to be more political, but actually I am more like a cave man\u2014primitive. I trust my intuition. Of course, I understand civilization; New York is civilized\u2014very strong. I came to do my work in the city; I didn\u2019t go to the mountains to be a hermit because I knew that staying in the city to do this kind of work would be ironic, and that\u2019s what I wanted. I am more interested in philosophical thinking.  But I leave my work open to different interpretations. For example, some people think of the time clock piece as industrial, as if it is about workers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: As labor?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: But that is talking only about working. I\u2019m also talking about life. It\u2019s not a 9-5 job: I lived in it, 24 hours a day for a year\u2014it is life. Your heartbeat continues. Art and life become one. My work shows different perspectives of thinking about life. For me, life is a life sentence; life is passing time, life is free thinking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: You put yourself in a situation, and stay absolutely in that situation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Right. Basically, I use time. Life is passing time; how to pass time is not my concern. It doesn\u2019t matter what kind of life one has\u2014everybody makes their own schedule. I created my schedule for passing time. I don\u2019t do art anymore, but to me doing life and doing art is all the same\u2014doing time. The difference is that in art, you have a form.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This approach gives me freedom\u2014nobody tells me what to do or expects what my work should be. If they say I\u2019m not good any more, that doesn\u2019t bother me. I don\u2019t feel I owe anybody anything [laughs<\/em>].<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: I think, for you, it\u2019s not about whether you have succeeded; it\u2019s more a case of \u201cDo I feel I need to do more work like this?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Adrian (Heathfield, who co-authored with Tehching Hsieh Out of Now<\/em>, a monograph on Tehching\u2019s work) said I am like a successful failure! [Laughs<\/em>]. It means I tried\u2014I did four pieces and then the last two. I created, then I became less creative; the first four works are footnotes for the last two\u2014it\u2019s time passing. I think about how free I could be and how far I could reach. Each time you are presented with a choice; when I say I\u2019m not making art any more, it\u2019s my exit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Tehching Hsieh, Linda Montano, \u201cArt\/Life One Year Performance 1983-1984,\u201d
life image \u00a9 Tehching Hsieh, Linda Montano
\u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176\uff0cLinda Montano\uff0c\u300a\u4e00\u5e74\u884c\u70ba\u8868\u6f141983-1984\u300b \u00a9 \u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176\uff0cLinda Montano<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: Freedom, in many ways, is the ability to make a decision.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: I don\u2019t see art as a career\u2014it\u2019s simply my life. At the beginning, I was at the bottom line [Tehching washed dishes and cleaned restaurants for four years upon arrival in the US]. I was passing time in a basic way. I didn\u2019t know many things, but at least I practiced. I asked myself questions and I tried to find answers. You won\u2019t be able to find answers from others or from knowledge\u2014 you have to go back to yourself, practice a lot, then answers will gradually emerge. I think this is essential. Through art, you transform.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: What did you ask yourself?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: I think everybody has some focus\u2014something that makes you more stuck or more confused. And you want to fix it. You find answers by practicing, then you move on. This is something to do with art. What could I do in life in order to do art? I dropped out of high school, entered the United States illegally. I did six pieces, lived in art, passing time; then, in 2000, I stopped doing art. I\u2019m doing life, still passing time; I don\u2019t feel much difference. I plan to do a retrospective. I need a 900 x 70 foot space to show my lifeworks\u201422 years all together. The timing of the show is not important\u2014it\u2019s important that the concept is brought up. I\u2019m glad I didn\u2019t have a gallery when I did those early works; people would have collected my work, then it would have gone everywhere and I would feel that this long, intentional duration of my work and its sequence had just been thrown away. If I had been successful back then, it would have been a problem.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: I hope it happens. Early on, you made paintings, didn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Yes. I understand art from painting. Some say I jumped from painting to performance, but I can only do one step at a time. I can\u2019t jump. But maybe my steps are big.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: This is something I wanted to talk about. The way you approach things seems quite extreme. You do art or don\u2019t do art; you stay inside, or outside; your work is visible, or invisible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: My whole life has been about art and growing. I was very much into painting, including during three years of compulsory military service. The work was not mature, but at least I did it, and I grew. I feel I\u2019m more an action kind of person. I did paintings of an active kind. That\u2019s how I understand my work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: So really, you changed the method from creating paintings to action itself\u2014not making something, but being it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Right. Like breathing, lived in art-time\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: But when you came here, it was with a very clear purpose: you wanted to be a real artist.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Yes. But I felt good doing my work in an illegal context; it was difficult, but I had some kind of freedom. I had no identity. Of course, that\u2019s a difficult status, but it gave me energy. If you\u2019re scared, you can\u2019t do it. You have to take the risk. In 1974 when I came here [to the US] I was 24, and didn\u2019t even know Soho. I went to Washington Square and saw people painting portraits in the street. I thought that was the art scene in New York. I found Soho by accident.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Tehching Hsieh, \u201cOne Year Performance 1978-1979,\u201d life image, photograph by Cheng Wei Kuong \u00a9 Tehching Hsieh
\u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176\uff0c\u300a\u4e00\u5e74\u884c\u70ba\u8868\u6f141978-1979\u300b\uff0c \u651d\u5f71 \u7a0b\u5049\u5149\uff0c \u00a9 \u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: Talking of confidence, it must have taken real bravery to do the cage piece. I wondered what made you feel confident at the time\u2014or perhaps you didn\u2019t?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: The experience was strong. I had already wasted four years [doing menial work], so I could waste one more year of time to do art! I just changed the way of passing time. [Laughs<\/em>] Of course, in my mind I thought it was new, but it was not really new\u2014life before was already harsh. Staying in the cage was extreme, but if you turn back you just return to harsh reality. I tried to make it better than what went before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: It was better because you made the decision to do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Right, it had that quality. If I didn\u2019t make it and went back to washing dishes, it would have been worse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: So the worst thing would have been not to have completed it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Yes, yes. [Laughs heartily<\/em>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: When you did the time clock, you missed 133 punches, didn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Yes, 133, 134.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: Does this mean anything to you, or is it just how it is? There is always something you cannot control.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: For me, it\u2019s still natural. 94\u201395%, I made it.  [Energetically, he pulls out the record<\/em>] You see here? December was the worst month. Then I thought, \u201cI mustn\u2019t get worse!\u201d Up to that point it was natural, but after December I felt concerned about it. The way I understand it is, if I got 100% right, it would feel too strict and not an understanding of human beings. This 94\u201395% means that I\u2019m not perfect, and that\u2019s human. If I got just 60%, of course, the audience would think, \u201cYou didn\u2019t do this job well.\u201d But I would say that everybody is different; some people could do better than me, I\u2019m sure. But nobody would want to waste time doing this without a reward. [Laughs heartily again.<\/em>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: Speaking of support, your family supported you, didn\u2019t they?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH: They did; they really have a good heart to support me, and they did what they could, but it doesn\u2019t mean we really had an understanding. I know it\u2019s better that I stay here. Here, I have more freedom; I am the oldest son, but I don\u2019t behave like a Big Brother. I left Taiwan, so I cannot expect more from them\u2014 that\u2019s the price I pay. I think the worst thing is if you admit your guilt but don\u2019t do anything to change it. So, I would rather not confess.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: But you have a great sense of humor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Thank you. I\u2019m not always that serious. I\u2019m not masochistic. No matter how hard life is, you still have to laugh, otherwise you can\u2019t continue.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

IW<\/strong>: I think these performances would not work without a light heart. I imagine people ask you: \u201cIs this a fulfilling thing to do?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TH<\/strong>: Well, it\u2019s not easy to complete the work, but the work is not about endurance. I pass time in an art form. I did work every hour, continuously, like breathing. It is one year, a cycle. It doesn\u2019t matter if you\u2019re creative not, or if you are poor or rich. The quantity of one year of time is the same; that is universal. I just keep the work basic, keep my life simple. But you need complexity in order to be simple.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Tehching Hsieh, \u201cOne Year Performance 1980-1981,\u201dlife image, photograph by Michael Shen \u00a9 Tehching Hsieh
\u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176\uff0c\u300a\u4e00\u5e74\u884c\u70ba\u8868\u6f141980-1981\u300b\uff0c \u651d\u5f71 \u6c88\u660e\u7428\uff0c \u00a9 \u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\"\"
Tehching Hsieh, \u201cOne Year Performance 1981-1982,\u201d life image \u00a9 Tehching Hsieh
\u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176\uff0c\u300a\u4e00\u5e74\u884c\u70ba\u8868\u6f141981-1982\u300b \u00a9 \u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n
\"\"
Tehching Hsieh, \u201cPaint. Red Repetitions\u201d, acrylic on paper, 30-sheet sketchbook, 38.1 x 53.3 cm, 1973
\u8b1d\u5fb7\u6176\uff0c\u300a\u756b. \u7d05\u7684\u91cd\u8907\uff0c\u58d3\u514b\u529b\u5f69\uff0c\u7d19\uff0c\u4e09\u5341\u9801\u7d20\u63cf\u672c\uff0c38.1 x 53.3\u516c\u5206\uff0c1973\u5e74<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

By\uff1a Iona Whittaker \u7231\u5b89\u963ftranslated by Lu W … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":6387,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[17],"tags":[1125,67,232,2650,2649,35,2651,516,2652,2653,29,239,2655,2656,210,211,2657,2658,230,231,2660,229],"yoast_head":"\nDoing Time: Interview with Tehching Hsieh - \u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"zh_TW\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Doing Time: Interview with Tehching Hsieh - \u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"By\uff1a Iona Whittaker \u7231\u5b89\u963ftranslated by Lu W … Continue reading →\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"\u71c3\u70b9 Ran Dian\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-03-19T07:32:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2022-12-14T07:34:52+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2022\/12\/image-1159.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"660\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"440\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Christopher Moore\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Christopher Moore\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"\u9810\u4f30\u95b1\u8b80\u6642\u9593\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"13 \u5206\u9418\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Christopher Moore\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/#\/schema\/person\/21b1847a0437023bf9ee1aec41477222\"},\"headline\":\"Doing Time: Interview with Tehching Hsieh\",\"datePublished\":\"2015-03-19T07:32:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2022-12-14T07:34:52+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/\"},\"wordCount\":2594,\"commentCount\":0,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/#organization\"},\"keywords\":[\"Adrian Heathfield\",\"artist\",\"artist interview\",\"cage piece\",\"Doing Time: Interview with Tehching Hsieh\",\"interview\",\"Linda Montano\",\"Marina Abramovic\",\"One year performance\",\"Out of Now\",\"Ran Dian\",\"Ran Dian magazine\",\"Time Clock\",\"\u505a\u65f6\u95f4\uff1a\u8c22\u5fb7\u5e86\u8bbf\u8c08\",\"\u71c3\u70b9\",\"\u71c3\u70b9 \u6742\u5fd7\",\"\u739b\u4e3d\u5a1c\u00b7\u963f\u5e03\u62c9\u83ab\u7ef4\u5947\",\"\u7433\u8fbe\u00b7\u83ab\u5854\u8bfa\",\"\u827a\u672f\u5bb6\",\"\u827a\u672f\u5bb6\u8bbf\u8c08\",\"\u963f\u5fb7\u91cc\u5b89\u00b7\u5e0c\u65af\u83f2\u5c14\u5fb7\",\"\u9762\u8bd5\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Features\"],\"inLanguage\":\"zh-TW\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/\",\"url\":\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/doing-time-interview-with-tehching-hsieh\/\",\"name\":\"Doing Time: Interview with Tehching Hsieh - 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