{"id":9237,"date":"2014-08-08T04:31:36","date_gmt":"2014-08-08T04:31:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/?p=9237"},"modified":"2023-02-19T04:45:27","modified_gmt":"2023-02-19T04:45:27","slug":"wang-keping-interview-wu-wei-er-wei","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/zh-hant\/wang-keping-interview-wu-wei-er-wei\/","title":{"rendered":"Wang Keping interview \u2014 \u201cWu wei er wei\u201d\u00a0"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>by Pia Camilla Copper<br>translated by Lu Wanwan \u8def\u5f2f\u5f2f<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There has been much focus on the \u201cStars Group\u201d of late, as well as similar art movements like \u201cWu Ming\u201d (\u201cNo Name\u201d). But one member of the defunct art movement living in Paris is not making many waves. In fact, he seems to be making no waves at all, much like a fish hidden deep in the recesses of the water, with only small bubbles now and then signaling his presence. Perhaps, though, his significance is this non-being\u2014his particular brand of \u201cwu wei\u201d. Despite a recent retrospective at UCCA in Beijing, a group show at the Mus\u00e9e Cernuschi and a group show at Chancery Lane Gallery during Art Basel Hong Kong, Wang Keping likes to keep to himself in a garden\/warehouse studio in Villejuif on the western outskirts of Paris.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"660\" height=\"990\" src=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-120.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-9249\" srcset=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/cmun4kml-image-120-200x300.png 200w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-120-100x150.png 100w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-120.png 660w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 660px) 100vw, 660px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Wang Keping \u738b\u514b\u5e73<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>When I go to meet him there, he has closely shaved his head, but there are still bristles like a paintbrush, and a clipped moustache. He cuts his hair himself with a clipper, meticulously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We sit down for tea in a light, unadorned atelier room with a copper stove. He prepares tea for me in two large noodle bowls. Opposite us are two chairs, male and female, crisscrossed with marks and breasts (even the man\u2019s). The seat of the chair is a protruding male organ, the woman\u2019s a slit like lips or a cowrie shell.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>On the wall hangs a sort of mask sculpture with pouting African-looking lips. Lips, eyes, and images of the female vulva seem to be all around the room. In the corner is what looks like a book-end\u2014but it has breasts, voluptuous and bouncy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cThose are wings,\u201d Keping says, smiling.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>On another table lies a polished copper necklace with a slit in the middle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cA smile,\u201d Keping says, \u201cor turn it around\u2014something else, a woman\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>[image]<a href=\"http:\/\/www.randian-online.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/08\/%E7%85%A7%E7%89%87-1.jpg\"><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Wang Keping, \u201cEternal Smile\u201d, bronze pendant, 4 x 4 cm, edition of 200, 2013<br>\u738b\u514b\u5e73\uff0c\u300a\u7b11\u53e3\u5e38\u5f00\u300b<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Somehow, looking across at this man\u2014his eyes like small fireballs, his large hands and torso\u2014makes this meeting seem like a confrontation, a silent one, between male and female. He looks like a peasant worker, his only gentility in the cleanliness of his appearance\u2014black shirt and black trousers. I can see his old Maoist work jackets and pants behind us, hanging on another chair; stained, limp, worn out, torn. He has obviously dressed to meet me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>When I ask him which of his works are new, he insists there aren\u2019t any. He always sculpts the same thing, women and birds, some with erotic beaks. Sometimes he sculpts couples, male and female, often in an embrace. He is sculpting feelings, not series and instincts, not theories.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cI never think of a series,\u201d he tells me, \u201cI find how to do it with the wood, and it is organic. The most important thing is to look for the wood\u2014it is difficult to buy. Mostly planks or beams are for sale. But I need big, rounder pieces. I sometimes go on excursions to the countryside to look for appropriate wood. Even when I find it, I am not sure I can use it but I bring it home anyway. I dry it. Then I mark the form and cut it with a chainsaw. Then I dry it again. Sometimes, I wait a year for it to dry and to crack properly. It is ready if it has cracked many times. I then use a chisel. And sand it. I then use a blowtorch to achieve the black, ebony color. The color is beautiful, yin and natural. Painted wood would not be the same. The contact with fire makes it natural. Fire is nature.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He takes me outside to the stacks of penciled marked trunks and the chiseled pieces drying in the sun. The garden around is wild, with pink-hued peonies falling over in clumps next to raspberry bushes weighed down with berries.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I notice a work on the table outside\u2014a male figure with an oblong head and two phalluses touching each other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cThere were two wooden branches entwined, I saw them. Erotic and unusual, isn\u2019t it?\u201d he says, catching my eye.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It reminds me of a painting I saw once at the old Shanghai painter\u2019s house, Li Shan, a male figure with male and female attributes\u2014beyond sex.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Somehow, the two phalluses make the wooden sculpture look more feminine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cMy works are not erotic,\u201d he adds. \u201cThey are just real, human. Even the birds I sculpt: The beaks look masculine but this is the way people see them. If you look at Bada Shanren, all of his birds look sexual, but it is because they seem human\u2014they seem to have feelings. Nature is a form of beauty and aesthetic.\u201d I wonder if all art is not innately erotic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"660\" height=\"989\" src=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-117.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-9240\" srcset=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/o7WDfK21-image-117-200x300.png 200w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-117-100x150.png 100w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-117.png 660w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 660px) 100vw, 660px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Wang Keping, \u201cBird\u201d, cypress, 58 cm high, 2006<br>\u738b\u514b\u5e73\uff0c\u300a\u9e1f\u300b\uff0c\u67cf\u6728\uff0c\u9ad858\u5398\u7c73\uff0c2006<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.randian-online.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/08\/DSC_1109.jpg\"><\/a>We go back inside for some more tea. I ask him about the painting in the back room, a small, tarnished work on canvas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cOh, that is Liu Dahong\u2019s,\u201d he tells me. \u201cHe made it for me when I came to Paris in 1989. You can see me peeking out of a small window, in the buildings above. It is a depiction of Pigalle, the red light district. The man with the cap on crutches in the street, seen from the back, is Ma Desheng, also a \u201cStars\u201d artist\u2026. Liu asked me if he ever came to Paris, how would he find me? It was his way of joking\u2014he\u2019d know where to look. Pigalle, Montmartre, where all the artists end up, with women. I kept it as a memory.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Women beckon from doorways in the painting; the sky is Van Gogh blue with stars. Wang Keping seems to have had a sort of Casanova reputation, except that he spends most of his time alone at the studio, with his family elsewhere. He is like a lone monk, day after day, with his pieces of wood, unremitting. Most of them are women, anyway.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He takes out an old play he had written when he was in New York with Ai Weiwei, visiting in the 1980s. It is about a woman artist sitting in a museum, talking to people, part of a performance. Wang comes in with his translator, Lao Ai (Ai Weiwei, in fact), and asks the woman if he can touch her, if she is an exhibit. She says, \u201cYes.\u201d He replies that he is a sculptor, in any case: \u201cI am a manual laborer, moving around bodies all day.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yet the rebellious machismo of the short play seems to stem less from the artist than from the socio-historical context. The Stars endured a lack of freedom which was not only political but also sexual; that generation lived under sexual repression. Another artist friend from the same period told me that the first time he drew a nude, the police came to knock down his door and the poor girl had not fully undressed. The nude as such was unthinkable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Seeing Huang Rui\u2019s erotic drawings of the same period, one can sense the repression, the lure of the forbidden, the hurried sessions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The story of his life as Keping tells it sounds like Celine\u2019s&nbsp;<em>Journey to the End of the Night<\/em>\u2014a voyage of self-discovery, more than anything. It is as though the \u201cBeijing Spring\u201d generation was simply grappling for freedom and in the end, turned to art, freedom\u2019s highest form.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cI was a Red Guard; we were sent to Heilongjiang, the far North,\u201d Keping recounts. \u201cWe lost our\u00a0<em>hukou<\/em>\u00a0or residence permit. I joined a theater troupe\u2014an army troupe to escape the countryside and return to the city. I was originally cast as Lei Feng, the Communist Party hero in a Shenyang theater group, but then I was refused the part as they thought I had gotten it through the\u00a0<em>houmen<\/em>\u00a0or back door (my mother was an actress with connections). I was eventually accepted into a Kunming theater group\u2014It was paradise. We were two to a bed, not more, no fleas; we could sleep lying down instead of vertically. But most of us at that time underwent a sort of sexual depression. One couldn\u2019t even talk to girls or dare look at them without being criticized and punished.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"660\" height=\"441\" src=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-121.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-9253\" srcset=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-121-300x200.png 300w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-121-150x100.png 150w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-121-449x300.png 449w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-121.png 660w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 660px) 100vw, 660px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Wang Keping \u738b\u514b\u5e73<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cAt first, I was happy being an actor, but then I thought, everything I do can be subject to criticism. It is like prison. I decided to leave the army troupe and work in a factory in Hebei. But I left that too and started working for CCTV first as an actor, then script writer. The director thought I was so talented, acting and scriptwriting at the same time\u2014he couldn\u2019t get over it. But whenever I mentioned the Gang of Four or some other touchy subject, I was censored. I was asked to put on Waiting for Godot with the French embassy. But it had to be done according to party \u2018guidelines\u2019. I was under the yoke. I thought, \u2018I need to escape again.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cWhen Mao Zedong died, Beijing was really starting to really \u201cswing\u201d. Foreigners were coming, people were into freedom, and the \u2018thing\u2019 at that time was a ghetto blaster. I traded one for a painting\u2014people did in those days. If you had one, you could dance in the park or at home, have a party. Soon, the Party put up signs: NO DANCING. The police arrested dancers. Everything was forbidden.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cSome of the art movement began as&nbsp;<em>fankang yishu<\/em>&nbsp;[&#8220;revolt art&#8221; or &#8220;resistance art&#8221;]. I started to sculpt as a revolt. My first sculpture was a man screaming holding a book, a little Red Book, It was theatrical, representing political figures as puppets.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cI had never had any training. Just a need to create. To do my own thing.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cEveryone was an autodidact back then. The universities were shut down. Writers, artists, we all gathered round the Stars group\u2014people like Ma Desheng, Bei Dao and Wei Jingsheng, the activist. I met Forest Blackfield, the New York Times correspondent in a park, clandestinely. He wrote about me first, a new art movement around the Beijing Spring. People looking for freedom.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"660\" height=\"536\" src=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-118.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-9243\" srcset=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-118-300x244.png 300w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-118-150x122.png 150w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-118-369x300.png 369w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-118.png 660w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 660px) 100vw, 660px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Wang Keping, \u201cEX-VOTO: Hearty Laugh\u201d, maple, 45 cm high, 1996<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.randian-online.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/08\/WKP_P228_Exvoto_14CMYK.jpg\"><\/a>\u201cNow people can do things in the freedom of their homes, in China. Of course, there is a lot of self-censorship; this business of Ai Weiwei with UCCA is part and parcel of that. When I did my show at UCCA, I wasn\u2019t allowed to invite Li Xianting. He could come, but he couldn\u2019t speak. Artists now have a great life \u2013 unless you make a conscious decision to oppose the government. My father was a writer, my mother was an actress, and everything they did was criticized. From my youth, I thought: all art should be free. That is what I said on the banner I carried during the Beijing Spring.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cWhat about influences?\u201d I ask. \u201cIf you didn\u2019t study art, what inspired you?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cI do think I was inspired in some sense afterwards; I traveled to Henan, collected the&nbsp;<em>wanju<\/em>, old toys of the peasants. The Han dynasty I like in its simplicity.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But Wang Keping doesn\u2019t really remember any of the first Western artists he saw or any foreign influence. He told me he feels his art is \u201cinstinctive\u201d. Some might call it \u201cart brut\u201d or primitivism; his works often remind people of African idols or Brancusi\u2019s animals and birds. He tells me he did not want to suffer outside influences, preferring instead to keep a clear, simple eye and mind.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cI have always had the temperament of a sculptor. I was arrogant even as a child. People said I should study. But I didn\u2019t want to join in, look at this, and look at that. Some artists now just take from here and there; they have no language of their own.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cTechnique can be taught, but the&nbsp;<em>jingli<\/em>&nbsp;(experience) and&nbsp;<em>gexing<\/em>&nbsp;(character) can\u2019t be. There are composers and there are interpreters.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cSometimes, I use half a day and nothing comes out of it. The most important is not to make something beautiful or resembling a thing, but to make something original. I want to be a composer.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cI am also Chinese; I do not make Chinese contemporary art or Chinese art, necessarily. I am making art as an individual.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>With this, Keping tells me he has to get back to work. He heads towards the chiseling room where a few women are kneeling forward into a circle, their hair tied in a bun like a dot at the end of a question mark. They look like spirals, infinite, spiraling mother figures, the origin of the universe. The simplest thing and yet the truest. If you never move\u2014<em>wu wei<\/em>, non-action\u2014you might attain some truth, some inescapable reality, some revelation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The bear lumbers back to his den with his chisel, ready to find something in the wood.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>[image]<a href=\"http:\/\/www.randian-online.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/08\/N%C2%B020-H-46-x-39-x-32.jpg\"><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Wang Keping, \u201cEX-VOTO: Fruits\u201d, poplar, 46 cm high, 2003<br>\u738b\u514b\u5e73\uff0c\u300a\u6027\u54c1\u7cfb\u5217\uff1a\u679c\u5b9e\u300b\uff0c\u767d\u6768\u6728\uff0c\u9ad846\u5398\u7c73\uff0c2003<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"660\" height=\"440\" src=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-119.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-9246\" srcset=\"https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-119-300x200.png 300w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-119-150x100.png 150w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-119-450x300.png 450w, https:\/\/randian-art.s3.ap-east-1.amazonaws.com\/2023\/02\/en\/image-119.png 660w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 660px) 100vw, 660px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Wang Keping, \u201cWOMAN: Under the Moon\u201d, cypress, 60 cm high, 2010<br>\u738b\u514b\u5e73\uff0c\u300a\u5973\u4eba\u7cfb\u5217\uff1a\u6708\u4eae\u4e4b\u4e0b\u300b\uff0c\u67cf\u6728\uff0c\u9ad860\u5398\u7c73\uff0c2010<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.randian-online.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/08\/DSC_1029.jpg\"><\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.randian-online.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/08\/mlp051660-1.jpg\"><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>by Pia Camilla Coppertranslated by Lu Wa &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/www.randian.art\/zh-hant\/wang-keping-interview-wu-wei-er-wei\/\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":9253,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[17],"tags":[5492,279,67,5493,5491,5494,35,5508,5496,5495,5509,5497,29,239,374,5498,5499,110,5500,5501,5503,5502,5081,5504,5505,5506,5507,230,421],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v20.8 - 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